Female engineers represent just 12% of the profession in Ireland. With International Women In Engineering Day upon us, how can we encourage more young women to join the industry?

What would a workforce with a better gender balance look like? How could the industry benefit from the unique skills and attributes of women that can often be missed in male dominated spaces?

Today we’re speaking to two female professionals who excel in the space of safety and sustainability, and are passionate about highlighting the variety and creativity available in an Engineering career. They are chartered civil engineer and artist Regina Clery, and safety specialist and experienced auditor Mary Foley.

Listen below or on your podcast player!

Things we spoke about

01:53 How to recruit young women into engineering

08:39 Better representation of female engineers

10:45 Safety measures in action

15:17 Why prevention is better than a cure

19:10 Staying on top of changing environments

23:40 Sustainable development goals

26:56 Applying safety to other industries

31:56 Everyone is responsible for safety

Guest details

Regina Clery

Having first started out as an Art & Design student, and now an Engineer, Regina Clery  is interested in projects that involve a range of technologies, culture & art to deliver STEM data across multi-disciplinary audiences.

Regina is a Chartered Engineer CEng MIEI - currently working in Transport (railroad & structures) with previous roles as a Civil Engineer in the Construction Industry, Third Level Education Program Coordinator of Civil Engineering and as a Third Level Lecturer - teaching Mechanical and Civil engineering, Building Construction, Environmental Sustainability and Renewable Energy.

Regina is passionate about Environmental Sustainability & Intrinsic Ecosystems, where the built environment meets the natural world. She is a Master of Science in Sustainable Energy and Green Technologies focused on development & optimisation of renewable energy resources, life cycle analysis & efficiency in power generation, mitigation of environmental impacts, plant biotechnology & business innovation.

Mary Foley

MaryFoley  is a Safety Professional with exceptional cross-industry experience in Pharma, Biopharma, and general industry manufacturing spanning almost 25 years.   She has vast experience in planning and Safety Management and in developing Major Accident Plans for many of the County Councils.  She is experienced in working closely with regulatory bodies as well as charities and planning authorities across a number of EMEA territories.  

Mary is an experienced Auditor with over 10 years of Experience as Lead Auditor. She is the author of National Industry standards and has advised at Government level on developing Safety Management Systems for sections of industry previously unregulated.  She has created and contributed to Risk and Risk Management Programs for numerous Irish companies, government departments, multi-nationals and National Governing Bodies. She is an entertaining public speaker and a highly competent expert Witness with experience in both the Circuit and High Court.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/foley-safety-solutions/ 

More information

Looking for ways to explore or advance a career in the field of engineering? Visit Engineers Ireland to learn more about the many programs and resources on offer. https://www.engineersireland.ie/

Engineers Journal AMPLIFIED is produced by DustPod.io for Engineers Ireland.


In general, women have a really, really good follow through. I also know that their attention to detail, in my experience, has been much, much better. And I think in my industry specifically, that's so important. - Mary Foley

I started off in art college and in fashion design, and now I'm an engineer. Nobody could have told me at that stage of my life that I was going to be an engineer, I wouldn't have believed it. The link is how to create and fix problems. You have to get into the schools and get them at an early age to attract women into these industries and show them that they can do this, that women are already doing it. - Regina Clery

Engineers Ireland has been incredible in terms of providing us with continuing professional development, new stuff coming down the track, new information. We absolutely have to stay on top of it all time, because it's ever moving, ever changing and thankfully ever improving. - Mary Foley

Prevention is always better than a cure, but unfortunately, people have this image that safety is expensive. It's not as expensive as a claim, but a claim isn't the be all and end all. It's the personal injury, the pain, the loss, the suffering, the everything else. You should be looking after your people. - Mary Foley

There's a huge drive at the moment, particularly with the sustainable development goals. A lot of companies know they should work towards becoming an SDG champion, which is rare nowadays. Maintaining safety in the workplace, the well being of employees, having wellbeing programs, and even gender equality, all those things make your workplace safer. - Regina Clery

When we're talking about longevity, changes need to be made to acknowledge that the female body needs particular sizing to comfortably wear PPE. There's no such thing really as unisex PPE, especially when it comes to protective equipment.  - Regina Clery


For your convenience, we include an automated AI transcription

Dusty Rhodes  00:01

right now and amplified the engineers journal podcast, we're about to discover how to engineers are striving to keep us safe every single day.

Regina Clery  00:11

Somebody who's very curious, otherwise nosy. I'm describing myself. Since I was a kid. I always wanted to know how does that work?

Mary Foley  00:24

The underpinning for me would be somebody who is a problem solver. Somebody who can see an issue and find a workaround find a way in which it can be made to work safely and cost effective.

Dusty Rhodes  00:39

Hi, there, my name is Dusty Rhodes and welcome to amplified the engineers journal podcast. Often, safety regulations only make the news when something has gone wrong, but what about all of the ways that they keep us safe? From trains planes construction sites to leisure centers, we're faced with an unlimited number of risks and hazards every day that are analyzed and managed by the unsung heroes of safety. Today, we're going to find out how people in the field are consistently working and learning to protect us from harm, and why strict regulations and codes are necessary to keep our infrastructure operating smoothly. To find out more about this, we're joined by two professionals who have excelled in the space of safety. From Foley safety solutions. We have a safety professional and experienced auditor, who has worked across numerous industries and advised at government level on developing safety management systems for unregulated industries. Mary Foley, you're very welcome.

Mary Foley  01:38

Thank you so much dusty, thank you.

Dusty Rhodes  01:40

Also, joining us is a chartered civil engineer and artist who works with Irish rail, and has a vision that aims to achieve global environmental sustainability. Regina Cleary, you're welcome.

Regina Clery  01:51

Thanks very much for having me dusty.

Dusty Rhodes  01:53

We've got lots to talk today about safety. But before we do, can I just take a moment to ask you about engineering overall, as an industry? Mary, I'll start with you. Because as a CEO, you'll have experience of this, whenever I'm speaking to CEOs on the podcast, they're always have struggles with staff, I bet without even saying what those struggles are, you can tell me what they are.

Mary Foley  02:17

Well, you've got your staff retention is a huge issue, the balance, the gender balance within that is an issue. So and then, you know, any CEO in any company, you know, unless you've got a really, really strong HR department, you know, you've got a nightmare in your hands.

Dusty Rhodes  02:34

And tell me more about the gender balance. Why where does that sit in your head?

Mary Foley  02:39

Well, in my head, no disrespect, present company excluded, of course. Just in general, women have really, really good follow through, you know, we develop a plan, and we follow through on it. I also know that they're very, very, their attention to detail, in my experience has been much, much better. And I think in my industry specifically, that's so important. And attention to detail and follow through,

Regina Clery  03:11

I think I'd have to second that, Mary. Yeah, I did a little bit of lecturing in Australia for years, and I had the predominantly I was teaching male students, and maybe there might be three females in the class. But that attention to detail always stood out, particularly with the females in the class. And that work, not that the work ethic was terribly different. But definitely, like you said, you describe it as the follow through and the ability to communicate as well, we're already conditioned or expected to communicate well. So that probably underpins our attention to detail. I know working with Irish rail, they've put their hands up as well and acknowledged that there is a problem, there's a gap in that the gender gender in the workplace. And they've acknowledged that there's 10%, females working across Irish rail. And they plan to at least double that by 2030, to try and fix that gender gap. And already, I think there's something wrong 56% of the intake of graduates into the company, have been female this year. So they're already making that those steps those waves to practically not just for the sake of the profile of the company, but to actually make those steps to start making that change. And it's not an easy one, to to change. But you have to physically allow or physically target those audiences, those particular schools and to make them make girls and women young women are aware that you're actually hiring and to say that in your advertisement in your marketing to say that females or women are welcome to apply.

Dusty Rhodes  04:50

So Regina, let me ask you then how would you encourage women who are considering a career in engineering what what would be the carrot you dangle

Regina Clery  04:59

out? We're like that I have that same experience when I was lecturing in Australia, in Perth, there was a government wide initiative there for the same thing to get more women into STEM roles in particular. So we realized the research that we did that we had to go to the schools and not just to transition your leaving cert that we have here. But to get them at a young age into the primary schools into the first second year of secondary schools, and to present ourselves to come as women who are working in the science of tech, the mathematical side of, you know, the industries, the workplace is there that are predominantly held, they're all They're held by men. So it just for I suppose you like that thing, just to be it, you have to see it. And I started off in our college and in fashion design, and now I'm an engineer, nobody could have told me at that stage of my life, that I was going to be an engineer, I wouldn't have believed it if he told me. So moving from fashion design and holding on to that curiosity of design and process and how things are made. I was always interested in architecture and design and garments. And that's the link is how to create and fix problems and how to make it fit the people that you're designing for civil engineering. And designing building infrastructures is the exact same thing in my mind as designing a garment or a dress or a parachutes. You have to make it fit and suit the people that you're designing for. So yeah, you have to get into the schools and get them at an early age to attract the women into these industries to show them that they can do this, that the women are already doing it. And also to promote and market it and use that particular language and be specific, and invite women women into the companies that are at the moment dominated by males or by men marry,

Dusty Rhodes  06:50

when you are recruiting, do you do anything in particular, to encourage women to consider a career in engineering?

Mary Foley  06:58

I don't have to agree there with Regina. Like, we don't get enough applicants. And I don't think women are not among them. But I don't think you know, at school and when the kids are still in school, I don't think they're grasping kind of the variety of roles that engineering presents. And your story is just a perfect example of that, that technically, you're doing the same thing that you wanted to do when you were leaving theropods. You're doing it in a different with a different focus, so to speak. But it's still the same, it's still the same concept.

Regina Clery  07:28

And your ice? Yeah,

Mary Foley  07:30

I mean, mine is mine is the same, like it's still taking it and you can take safety engineering and bring it to literally any industry. Yeah, and the same rules will always apply, you know, the same risk management concept is always going to be the same. I mean, I, when I do hire, I kind of I do pay a lot of attention to feedback that I'm getting from, you know, previous people they've worked with previously or with, you know, where they've had experience with a they've been, we do a lot of training, a lot of safety training, a lot of kind of consultancy work. So I would testimonials are very important to me, and, you know, feedback from previous experiences and so forth. And I don't think women are looking for it. I mean, does this concept out here virgin and true, you'll agree with this. As women, we're not looking for special treatment? No, we're not looking to only work mornings. No, we're not looking to have right as well. You know what I mean? We're perfectly prepared to work, you know, 5060 hours a week if needs be together to race. We're just as hard working and there's no special treatment

Regina Clery  08:35

just as resilient. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Dusty Rhodes  08:39

I think it's really interesting because we're recording the podcast in the same month as International Women in Engineering Day. And I think it's getting better to see more women in engineering if you look at any engineering website now they're all using stock photos of women and men on site and stuff like that.

Mary Foley  08:54

I just drew a bunch of stock photos referenced there a moment ago dusty though you don't advise me absolutely not. So I do some news, you know, makeup like the testimonies out there is no woman on earth with looks like that on the building play. Yeah, I

Regina Clery  09:12

can tell you, Mary and I, especially the last year, what feedback I gave some feedback to my own company tires rear and I advise to use the people who are already working in the company, for those photographs for marketing. So now, I suppose I was already holding my hand up to take part of and to so only recently I've had a photographer follow me in my everyday work and role and I'm not I mean, my orange hive is working on track. And we we attended the I wish event in the RDS which was about getting more young girls and women into STEM roles. And there was a poster bigger than myself of my of me and my hive is standing on a platform and And like that they've acknowledged what you just said, Mary is that it's very important to make it look real as it is. We can of course go in with our nails painted if we so choose. But we're not like that every day, we're there working. And we've to wear PPE the same as everybody else. I have my hard hat on some of the days. And yes, you get to duck in just like everybody else. And you're not always going to come home the same way you left the house. Part of the message I'd like to give you know not to be should assume that women will be afraid to do these roles. Because we are well able to pick up the equipment and the tools and the shovels. And do as men do climb the ladders. And you know, it's it's no different. Yeah,

Dusty Rhodes  10:45

let's let's chat about safety. I think a lot of people underestimate the importance of safety. I mean, we seldom hear things like, you know, bridge collapses, there was one huge one in Italy a couple of years ago. However, catastrophes when things like that do make the headlines, Regina, I'm just thinking of yourself. When I think of bridges and trains and stuff like that. How would you balance that kind of bad news, if you like with some everyday examples of consistent use of services that work seamlessly and safely,

Regina Clery  11:13

every single day that I go to work safety underpins what I do every single day, before we even begin our work, we have our safety briefing or Method Statements, we're all trained we have we take a personal track safety course, that's the first ticket that you get to make sure that you know that you are responsible for your own safety, it takes could take a train up to 800 to a kilometer and a half to stop a fast train. That's the level of risk. And that's important for the public to know as it is for an employee working on the track. So your personal safety and the safety of the team you're working with is first and the most important thing that you have to have in your head before you start your work. And as you continue to work throughout the day. And the objectives is to get everybody home safely not just to complete the work as prescribed, but to get everybody on safely first and foremost. So when it comes to the actual infrastructure and the interface with the general public or members of the public, one of the things that we monitor every day is say vehicles traveling under bridges. And often a vehicle might get stuck, or what we might we call it a bridge strike. And the most important thing that a member of the public can do in that instance, is to use the phone number that's on the side of the bridge and contact us immediately. And give the number of the bridge so that we have the location. And straightaway then we will send out a team to remove the vehicle if necessary, and help that member public to do the right thing. And to also stop all trains that that's above that bridge, to make sure that people passengers traveling on that train and that train whether passengers are on or not, is safe to continue on its journey or to stop it until it is safe to continue. So that's something that we monitor every every single day. Another thing level crossing use, we have Level Crossing Awareness Day. And you'll see I be there my high veers along with other members of colleagues of mine throughout the country will be at certain level crossings where we want to set pedestrians to be more aware of vehicle use or to be more aware of how to properly and safely use the level crossing. One of the things that we'll say is for pedestrians in particular, take out your airboats. If you're listening to music, take out the air pods, take off the headphones, be aware of the wind and how sound is traveling. You need to listen for the horn of the train, the movement of the train coming towards you if you to look up and down the track before you cross it and stay at least two meters away from the nearest rail when the train has passed, and if there's barriers, if the barriers are going up, way to the top and waiting, the lights start flashing, some people tend to go when the barriers are up, but the lights are still flashing. So stop, wait for the lights stop flashing for those extra moments. And make sure it's safe to cross before you do. Keep your dogs and lead. Be aware that your prime is in front of you. So make sure the prime is two meters away from the rail and not just you. And yeah, overall just be aware of your surroundings. Why wine down the window of the car, if you're stuck to the car so that you can hear properly what's going on, turn off your radio and just simple things that people might might not necessarily be common sense. I absolutely don't take it for granted there isn't a train just because you can see it the hearing to look a few times up and down before you cross and to not stop in the middle of the crossing either to keep going down to your off the far side of the crossing as well. So yeah, that's something they're things that we are aware of that we have to manage along with our everyday maintenance work is the at that interface with the members of the public. We want me to keep the railway safe for everybody, all users.

Dusty Rhodes  14:58

So a lot of safety then is preventative measures and simple instructions to people. And when you think it through Mary, how about industries outside of rail now that are lacking in safety measures that could could do a little bit more of this thinking? How do you how do they identify potential hazards?

Mary Foley  15:17

Well, hopefully this industry is kind of outside of the ones we've discussed, would, you know, the, the whole safety management system has to be based around risk assessment, and risk assessment, it has to be based on two formats, you've got the possibility of it occurring, whatever the risk might be risk realizing itself. And so and then the severity of the outcome, if it did happen, and generally speaking, it'd be a near miss, that will actually trigger them getting more help bringing in somebody from outside to assist them. Sometimes it's too late, sometimes it's after something has happened when somebody's lost a finger at the top of the finger, or whatever it might be. But generally speaking, from my experience, as a professional, I'm generally been brought in, after the stable door has been left open, and a lot of my work will be first of all, close and stable door making sure no other horses are going to get out. And then you know, setting up the systems and procedures to make sure that there won't be any additional accidents, you know, and always always want to get precise, I find that it's not always the reason they rang me that and therefore, that I will actually find maybe half a dozen different other reasons why I need to be there and things need to be addressed. You know, the, the Prevention is always better than cure. But unfortunately, people have this image, just do the safety is expensive. It's not as expensive as a claim. And I mean, a claim isn't the be all and end all. It's the personal injury, the pain, the loss, the suffering, the everything else in your family. That's really what was meant to prevent. It's not a claim, the claim is the easiest and cheapest part of it. Some people say or don't want to claim, that's not what you should be looking at. You should be looking, you know, looking after your people,

Dusty Rhodes  17:08

very if you're an engineer, and you know, part of your day is going to be thinking about safety, but how can you just change your mindset to kind of up your game? When you're thinking about safety and preventing things from happening in the first place? What advice would you give an engineer,

Mary Foley  17:24

I would always say to look at the two kinds of risks. So look at the foreseeable ones, which are, you know, you would expect in, you know, any business and then you got the unforeseeable ones, the ones that I would call site specific. And I would say to look at that, and always, always, always expect the unexpected, you can never allow for things that people will do, you know, and I haven't been I haven't, you know, investigated so many accidents now, across a number of industries. But one in particular just jumps to mind there. Where when we train somebody to respond in a certain way, and you train them and train them and train them. And then they will respond exactly as you trained them. So sometimes you need to look at the training and say, okay, is this what I want them to do? If this outcome occurs, what springs to mind is strictly a case where I was investigating an accident, I would had a happy ending, the casualty survived. But where we had a lifeguard, jumping into the water swimming across the pool, and then bringing the casualty the whole way back up the pool again, before they took them out of the water stance and solicitation in general, because that's what we trained them to do. So I think we need to maybe look at our training and say, Okay, if this hazard realized, and the risk associated with our hazard, realize is the training that I've given them going to have the desired outcome. You know, so I will be looking at the receivables, the unforeseeable and then looking at the training and saying, Okay, if this happens, will that training, cover every eventualities?

Dusty Rhodes  19:10

What can I ask them? How should an engineer to think about these things? Because the environments that you're both working in, I mean, everything is constantly changing and evolving around us. I mean, how I'll start with Regina, how do you stay on top of new hazards and changing regulation?

Regina Clery  19:25

Well, even just on a daily or a few hours in that day, for you, you've set up your I'm a truck safety coordinator. It's another level of safety that I'm training for. I'm looking after a group of people who are working trackside, like Mary mentioned earlier. And so one of the things you're looking out for as part of your training, if you've set up a safe method statement, say, method statement for carrying out your work safely. And one of the things you're looking out for is if that changes, if the weather changes for instance, if the it underfoot conditions have changed, maybe there's more water all of a sudden than there had been when you first started. So I would have given my safety briefing before we came on to the site. So if that safety briefing briefing would have been based on what I see, on the morning of or before work starts, and safe access and egress from the site that might change. And so if we're doing our work or coming out of work, any of those conditions change, then I would have to stop the works, take people aside and to re brief according to the new conditions. So you're constantly as an engineer, not just carrying out the work. But you're also looking at your environment around you, and you're monitoring those changes, you're looking at the people who are working in your group as well, you're looking for any signs of fatigue, or dehydration, things like that, that you might think as part of an engineering role. But you're all you're keeping an eye on everything as best that you can, along with other colleagues that you have in safety roles alongside you, there's levels of safety within that safe system of work is the term I was looking for earlier. So there's levels of safety when I say system work, and there's more than just me as a track safety auditor, we've other engineers in positions of safety as well. And everybody acknowledges that they're responsible for their own safety as well, they all have their PTS, and they all have their they all sign off for that before they've come two sides. So yeah, it's constant monitoring, and you have to maintain your currency by their engineer or chartered engineer, you have to maintain your currency, and make sure that you're up to date is not enough to take a once off safety training course, you have to do that repetitively. And you it's, it's unlike that you've trained somebody to do something once, but to train them over and over again. So they automatically do what you they're trained to do. I was in the reserve defense forces for 11 years. And one of the things that I took away from that was that repetitive training, training again, and again and again, so that when something happens, straight away, you just switch on and you do the right thing. The right thing being the thing that you were trained to do.

Mary Foley  22:15

If I could jump in there, actually, if you don't mind, Regina, because you raised a very interesting point there. And that's, you know, the needs, people sometimes say, oh, safety, that's, that's our job. It's not safety is absolutely everybody's role. Absolutely everybody. And we don't have to train them realistically, in safety, because we all do it automatically. We all get into the car in the morning, and we risk assess the driveway onto the main road to see you know, whether or not I can pull out here, it's safe to pull over on us. So we're always risk assessing in our lives all the time. So most people that come second nature to them, what's the point of work, the dynamic point of work, risk assessment is really, really, really important skill, the ability to be able to recognize the conditions have changed, and to be able to do this dynamic risk assessment or be it in your head and say, Okay, no, it's unsafe, we need to stop what we're doing. You know, so

Regina Clery  23:13


Mary Foley  23:14

I think it's, I think safety, it needs to be kind of across the board. And just going back to your question there. Dusty, I suppose I should have been incredible engineers, Ireland, incredible, in terms of providing us with kind of a continuing professional development, new stuff coming down the track new information. And yet, we absolutely have to stay on top of it all time, because it's ever moving, ever changing and thankfully ever improving.

Regina Clery  23:40

There's a huge drive at the moment, particularly with the sustainable development goals. And I'm on the committee for the for setting up the forums with the Department of my environment for this sustainable, Sustainable Development Goals, which there are 17 of, and God three is in good health and well being and future work and health and safety in the workplace comes down to that goal. And working towards that. A lot of companies know they should work towards becoming an SDG champion, which is rarely nowadays. But all of that maintaining safety in the workplace, and the well being of employees having wellbeing programs, and even gender equality, all those things make your workplace safer. So all like Mary said engineers, Ireland, all those governing bodies, Department of Environmental communications, are have that information there and guidance there to help workplaces get this going or to be more focused on reporting it and how they're progressing along the way. So the information is there. And I suppose to make time to acknowledge these initiatives there is important as well as your day to day work as an engineer. I do so a lot of that work. I do it as part of being a chartered engineer outside of my day to day work. I do it as voluntary work, and to, I suppose share the knowledge of the SDGs and how At the well being and code of ethics and yeah, any regulations that have changed? Yeah.

Dusty Rhodes  25:05

The things you brought it up Regina, about sustainability, what changes would you like to see in the engineering sector specifically to ensure sustainability and longevity.

Regina Clery  25:15

Specifically, I'd bring it back to basics. When we're talking about longevity, longevity, and I've already mentioned gender, and we started the conversation very early on with them mentioning the gender gap, and particularly with PPE, professional protective equipment, changes need to be made and acknowledged that women the female body needs particular sizing to comfortably wear the PPE that's there available. There's no such thing really as unisex PPE, especially when it comes to protective equipment. In my role, I'm crouching down, I'm climbing ladders, I'm up and down embankments and bridges. My PPE needs to be safe for me to wear uncomfortable for me to wear to carry out my job safely. So I think a lot of workplaces are starting to acknowledge this, that there is a difference, especially in footwear as well between male and female footwear. So for even to retain the women who are working in engineering roles, we need to see those changes made sooner, the better. So that we feel comfortable and welcome in the jobs that we're in. And simple things, bring it back to the basics, that PPE access to toileting facilities that are suitable for the female body, simple things like that will promote more women in the industry in the engineering dose, and also for the longevity of the industry. And to get more women involved in engineering. It doesn't it's not going to take a lot of thinking on a technology, what's already there that we need to change

Dusty Rhodes  26:44

other small things on sustainability marry and away from safety. They talk to me about cultured meat, that the you know where it's meat has grown in a in a lab, that's of a particular interest to you, isn't it?

Mary Foley  26:56

It is it is. And that was one that I came across while working with a tobacco company, an American company there, they're based off and for my it was there that I came across it but it's actually quite, you know, advanced in terms of the research in the meat can be grown in a bioreactor from literally only a few cells. And to me, the hobbyists dilute the obvious use of that would be to provide food and nutrition and a high protein dense product to the starving millions in the worlds and I suppose breaks my heart to a certain extent that where that research and where all that effort is going is more providing for you know, multinational companies, so they can offer a meat free burger. No, it was fascinating to me for eating from the outset, it's you can roughly kind of generate about 500 pounds of protein meat in the bioreactor in a day. But body evac we're trying to do in tandem with a company called good meats, and the US was to size it up to actually build bioreactors big enough to be able to scale us to the point where it was possible to literally feed the world, you know, where we would have, you know, the capacity to generate huge amounts of this product. But to me, you know, guys sorry, if we're if we're if we're developing products like this, which will be absolutely life changing for people, we really need to be drilling down and focusing it down to the areas which needs most not kind of offering new products to already are referred Europeans and Americans.

Dusty Rhodes  28:40

It sounds like an enormous job to be kind of growing these things in a in a lab compared to you know, kind of doing it the natural way, if you like, what's the difference in cost is a huge cost saving doing it that way,

Mary Foley  28:54

there is a huge time saving element to it. There's the fact that, you know, you're not having to slaughter you know, 1000s of animals and millions of animals. And I suppose you've got, you know, those animals while they're still you know, being you know, fed and watered and everything there's you got your greenhouse gases and so forth that is being you know, as a result of the Capitol. So, I mean, the knock on effect is huge. But it the main thing is that, if they can scale it up to the level that they were trying to scale it to, and get it as automated as they were Yes, as they were making it to be that we would have the capacity as a world to be able to generate foods to feed the whole world. You know, in terms of kind of proteins, high dense protein.

Regina Clery  29:43

It's an interesting it's an interesting concept. I wasn't aware of Marian, I suppose. I'm not an all or nothing kind of person. I like to mix different systems into one and not just rely on a particular system. So be I suppose It'll be interesting to see that implemented. And when I hear you scale up straightaway, and going back to our masters and sustainable energy and going right scaling up and looking at lifecycle analysis, and you mentioned carbon emissions and things like that, as a civil engineer, I'm thinking of the amount of energy that you'd put into something like that, versus is it going to reach a net zero, kind of at the end? Today, we're talking about electricity, how its generated? What are the materials we're using to create, build these plants? And then yes, we're not slaughtering the animals, but there is going to be some kind of emission coming from the plant itself, in helping that material to grow the non meat or meat to grow. And I suppose I'm then I'm thinking of yet there's some we're talking about biodiversity, some systems rely on animals on the land as well for the sake of biodiversity. So it's a huge system, the lifecycle of that system, where it does end killed, cradle to gate the call it? How sure, are we that it's a good thing and doesn't have bad side effects? But surely, we can certainly improve the systems that we already have. But I don't think there's any quick fix. But for certainly, like you said, they continue to feed the people who already have the food doesn't work. And as it is, you know, a lot of the staple foods that are grown in South America are be shipped over to the Europeans and creased the cost of the staples that the South Americans might have otherwise, for the sake of veganism, there are the very interesting conversations, but increase emissions at the same time. So, you know, environment versus feeding, the fewer, I don't know, it's hard to be sure of the outcome, whether it's positive or negative.

Dusty Rhodes  31:46

Well, you see, these are the big questions that engineers typically tackle stuff. Yeah, Mary, any last point you'd like to make?

Mary Foley  31:56

One thing that we've we've kind of touched on but not kind of hit hit the nail on the head with is that very few employees and regime unifying this as well, very few employees realize that under the 2005 Act, they actually have an obligation to look after their own safety, and the safety of others. And I know trackside safety course focuses very heavily on that. But very few employees realize that they have a legal obligation to look after the safety and safety of others. So I suppose if I was if I was sending any message out anywhere, that would be one of them, you know, to do look out for yourself and safety for yourself and your colleagues. That's really, really important.

Dusty Rhodes  32:36

It's been absolutely fascinating talking to both of you today, and we've gone down avenues that I never expected. And you've brought things into my mind that I never expected to know really, really good stuff. So I just want to say Mary Foley and Regina cherry, thank you so much for joining us on the engineers Ireland podcast. Thank you, Dustin. Thanks for having if you'd like to find out more about Mary and Regina and some of the topics which we spoke about today, you will find notes and link details in the show notes area on your player right now. And of course you'll find more information and exclusive advanced episodes of the engineers Ireland amplified podcast on our website at engineers ireland.ie. Our podcast today was produced by just pod.io for engineers Ireland if you would like more episodes to click the Follow button on your podcast player to get access to all of our past and our future shows automatically. Until next time for myself, Dusty Rhodes. Thank you for listening.