Sustainability Framework

Engineers play a crucial role in tackling the world's most pressing challenges, from climate change to infrastructure and resource security. Engineers Ireland is committed to driving sustainable development through education, regulation and advocacy. 

Our 2025 - 2027 Sustainability Strategy builds on our existing commitments, empowering engineers to be at the forefront of climate action and environmental stewardship. 

The Strategy adopts the newly established Transform, Impact and Champion framework, incorporating trackable, measurable actions developed in consultation with members and staff. 

Approved by the Council of Engineers Ireland on 14 December 2024, this strategy ensures accountability, with progress reported quarterly to the Executive Board. 

By embedding sustainability into professional practices and fostering collaboration, we are engineering a better future for all. 

Watch the launch of Engineer's Ireland Sustainability Strategy 2025 - 2027

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In this episode of Amplified, we wrap up our special mini-series on sustainability with an episode discussing the importance of mindset shifts in achieving Ireland's 2030 renewable energy targets. 


Henry Bouchier and Terry Wilkinson, experts in renewable and civil engineering respectively, emphasise the impact of small changes in sustainability. 

Terry highlights cost-effective measures like wildlife ladders for amphibians, while Henry focuses on early integration of biodiversity considerations in projects. Both stress the importance of community engagement, effective communication, and practical steps like reducing material use and measuring embodied carbon. They advocate continuous improvement and collaboration to achieve broader sustainability goals.

THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT

●    The need to move beyond technical fixes to sustainability mindset shifts
●    How biodiversity can be enhanced through subtle project design changes
●    The need to move beyond technical fixes to sustainability mindset shifts
●    Designing infrastructure to cope with extreme weather
●    Challenges in balancing safety, cost, and environmental benefit

GUEST DETAILS

Henry Bouchier is a Civil, Environmental and Renewable Engineering Manager at ESB.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/henry-bouchier-271b6b18/


Terry Wilkinson is a Design & Application Engineer at ACO Water Management. As a Civil Engineer for ACO, Terry has focused his career predominantly on the highways industry, both in his 11 years at ACO and prior to this working as a client, consultant and contractor for Local Authority highways. He is a member of the CIHT and is working towards his chartered engineer status with CPD at the heart of this journey. His professional interests are focused on wildlife mitigation solutions and highway surface water management; however, he also has a broader understanding of applications for other areas such as rail, housing, commercial and distribution developments. Biodiversity and wildlife are things he is also passionate about personally and he is actively involved in initiatives such as local toad patrols.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/terry-wilkinson-beng-mciht/

MORE INFORMATION

Looking for ways to explore or advance a career in the field of engineering? Visit Engineers Ireland to learn more about the many programs and resources on offer. https://www.engineersireland.ie/   

Engineers Journal AMPLIFIED is produced by DustPod.io for Engineers Ireland.


QUOTES

We never get to net zero unless we have a wide variety of renewable energy sources, and then we have some backup
— Henry Bouchier, Civil, Environmental and Renewable Engineering Manager at ESB

Often with sustainability, people have these massive identity, massive cost ideas... but often some of the smaller measures can really have positive impacts
— Terry Wilkinson, Design & Application Engineer at ACO Water Management

It's a mindset shift that has technical solutions. We just have to think a little bit differently how we do things
— Henry Bouchier, Civil, Environmental and Renewable Engineering Manager at ESB

Everything in nature and wildlife is linked. If you have a decline of a certain species, it will have a knock-on effect to something else
— Terry Wilkinson, Design & Application Engineer at ACO Water Management

Do one thing right, and then you can go back and improve something else. Just improve one thing is probably the way to do it
— Henry Bouchier, Civil, Environmental and Renewable Engineering Manager at ESB


KEYWORDS

#SustainableEngineering #RenewableEnergy #BiodiversityInfrastructure #ClimateInnovation

 

TRANSCRIPTION

For your convenience, we include an automated AI transcription

Dusty Rhodes  00:00
Engineers hitting the 2030 renewable targets aren't using different technology, they just think differently. 

Hi there. My name is Dusty Rhodes, and you're welcome to AMPLIFIED the Engineers Journal podcast and the conclusion of our special miniseries on sustainability. 

The gap between now and Ireland's 2030 renewable targets is being widened by 1000s of incremental decisions where engineers stick to the way we've always done it. But the reality is that sustainability isn't an add on expense, it's a design methodology, and it can make projects more resilient, profitable and even easier to approve. 

Our guests today will share the specific mindset shifts and practical steps that transformed their project outcomes proving the biggest sustainability wins can come from the smallest changes in how you think. We're joined by Henry Boucher, Manager, civil environmental and renewable engineering at ESB who has delivered massive wind projects while pioneering community engagement, which literally gets the community invested and also by Terry Wilkinson, highways application engineer at ACO technologies in the UK, whose out of the box sustainable drainage approach proves simple design changes often solve complex environmental challenges without breaking budgets. 

Henry and Terry, you're both very welcome.

Henry Boucher  01:19
Morning Dusty, thank you 

Terry Wilkinson  01:21
Morning Dusty. Thank you very much for having us.

Dusty Rhodes  01:23
So in the first two episodes of this mini series, we've covered the SDGs and the current state of sustainability in Ireland, and particularly with transport today. I'd love to kind of get your experience on what we can do as individual engineers to build more sustainability considerations into our work. So can I ask you both, Do you believe the small changes make a difference? Terry, what do you think?

Terry Wilkinson  01:51
It’s a great question, and I think short answer is yes. Often with sustainability, people have these massive identity, massive cost ideas and massive things. Oh, we need all these huge things that we don't have budget for. And sometimes they're, they're what's needed. Sometimes great, but often some of the smaller sort of measures that you can put in place and think about can really have impacts, positive impacts, on on your projects, for things like wildlife and biodiversity on and around roads, roads so roads and highways is an area that I focus on. And roads, traditionally are there to move people around, I guess, and that's what we think our road is of moving people and freight and that sort of thing. But we don't. Historically, we've never, maybe given great consideration to the big sort of green estate that's next to the road, and it is quite a significant area. And as I say, it doesn't always need to be massive measures. And I think from an engineering perspective, understanding what's needed and having a really good relationship with ecologists, landscape architects, that sort of thing to understand the wider applications can really benefit that. And as I say, if you integrate that into your thinking right from the start, sometimes the solutions come naturally without having to maybe think about bigger infrastructure and stuff to do it sometimes you can easily build it in with without major cost implications.

Dusty Rhodes  03:26
And Henry, in your experience, do you think small changes make a difference?

Henry Boucher 03:30
Yeah, no, I absolutely do Dusty, right? And I would agree with a lot of what Terry says there, and very much building it in early height, and thinking about it early in the projects, I think makes a huge difference. And I'm kind of, I'm lucky where I'm working right that I work in that, in Civil, Environmental, renewable, in ESB, or a developer of infrastructure, so I have an opportunity to work in that, and to try to influence that, what we do there. And I would say over the years, you alluded to at the outset there Dusty over the years, I went very much from thinking this was a technical problem, actually realising actually, it's a mindset shift that has technical solutions. So we just have to think a little bit differently how we do things. And in lots of ways, it's very simple. It's a It's biodiversity, like, like Terry talked about there. And for instance, if you're developing a solar farm, or you're developing something, right? Yeah, there's an opportunity to leave hedgerows and places. There's an opportunity to leave, leave tree stumps there in places. Opportunity to do lots of things that will enhance the biodiversity, or at least will, will, will give it a chance. And that's very much having good relationships and having under some understanding, and being able to kind of bring in ecologist and get some understanding what would be beneficial that very much works there and in lots of other things. It's just very simple in that using less is is a very good start, right? And thinking about how you use less. And so using less in, you know, being efficient in design and concrete. Right? There's a little bit of a conflict there for engineers, because the first thing is, thing can't fall down, or it can't be dangerous. So striking, striking that balance right in you using less. But I think really, the how you drive it, or how you get it really, is start to measure what you're doing, right? So understand and measure what you're doing, you know. So if you know, right, you know, just start measuring your embodied carbon and concrete, then you can focus very quickly on reducing that where possible, you know, so, so I think it's, it's the small steps Dusty and then then measuring what you're doing.

Dusty Rhodes  05:32
Both of you work on very large physical projects, but there's tiny little details in there that people just don't consider Terry and kind of think of yourself particularly and about biodiversity, which is a particular passion of yours. Tell me more about building motorways and wildlife ladders.

Terry Wilkinson  05:53
It's one of my favourite, one of my favourite topics. So, so yeah, with motorways, obviously, when we're looking to drain the motorway. Then, typically we've got gullies on the roads. If you've got amphibians, newts, frogs, toads, that sort of thing, in and around the area, they will often because the slots on the gratings are quite large, obviously, to let water and things in. Unfortunately, that means they will also can be a trap for amphibians. So a real simple, cost effective, very easy to install measure is a is a ladder in a in a gully, so that amphibians can escape. And often, when I tell people this, they might roll their eyes. They might think, Well, what a load of nonsense. That doesn't work. Yeah, and I've got some, I've got some fantastic video footage, which actually shows toads climbing out of ladders, sorry, out of gullies and up these ladders. They're they're really good climbers. And if you put a measure in like that for them, just something that enables them to help themselves, then it can make a really big difference. And as I say, something that doesn't have to be massively costly. It's easy to it's easy to fit and retrofit. So you can install it in existing gullies, or if you're building new schemes and roads, it could do that as well and and as this doesn't impact the effects of the gully, you can still clean the Gully. It's fixed to the sidewall of the gully, but a great, simple but effective solution. And when people see the results, and particularly, sort of, obviously, people want proof that these things work. And over the years, we've seen lots of examples of that, and when people see it in action, I think it really, it really spikes their attention. Really thinks, wow, that's that is actually effective. And it's a it's a simple, cost effective solution.

Dusty Rhodes  07:42
It's a tiny little detail, but it reminds me now, you might know this story does if all the bees in the world were to go away? I mean, my personal opinion is, well, there no honey on the shelves. I don't care. I'm not going to get stung, but mankind would not live for very long if all the bees in the world disappeared. So it's not kind of tiny, little change. And just thinking, when you went into work and said, You know what, guys, I've had this great idea about wildlife learners, this is what I'm trying to think, these little changes, like, you know, how is it perceived? And how did you get people on board?

Terry Wilkinson  08:15
It's, I think you one of the things that you said earlier on really struck a chord with me. And my thing from my own background, as well as engineers, we don't like change. We don't like doing things differently, and we're not always the best, the most open minded when it comes to new solutions. If it's not tried and proven, if there's not a standard that says This beats this standard, or must fit to this then we're always a bit reluctant. But nature and wildlife doesn't necessarily follow strict standards and rules. And when you when you have these ideas and you implement these measures, and you see them, you see them work, I think that's the thing. It's it's trying to get across and demonstrate to people that they do actually work. But also, and you said that the bees is a really good point as well, because often people like, What do I care about a few toads? And what does it matter if they you know, if we lose a few toads? You know, there's ecologists that would explain this far better than I can. But everything in nature and wildlife is is linked. So if you have a decline of a certain species, whether that be toads or bees, or whatever, it will have a knock on effect to something else, either higher up the food chain or lower down the food chain. And bees is a really good point. I can't remember. I've got my statistics exactly right, but it's something around bees are responsible for, for their pollination, directly and indirectly, for around 80% I think, of the food that we eat. So as you say, you might initially think, oh, yeah, won't have much honey, but it has a much, much bigger effect to knock on effect than that. And I think when I think the trick is trying to get people to kind of understand that it's not just about that individual species, and think, Okay, we might lose a few of those. What's the problem? Yeah.

Dusty Rhodes  10:00
So that's kind of one really, really small idea, and it does make it. It literally makes a global difference. Henry, while wind farms are big projects, they're not the full story. Do you consider individual projects as standalone or are they crucial components of a broader national sustainability strategy?

Henry Boucher  10:19
I think it's the it's the latter, very much Dusty, right? So very much, wind farms are part of the solution. Solar farms are part of the solution. And then storage is a big part of the solution, and being able to crack really inter seasonal storage, so there's no, there's no one silver bullet here, and also can as part of all of that, right is efficiency and empowering people and customers that they can get the best, best use from their energy retrofitting homes. The whole lot is, is intertwined, really, right? And we never get to 10 net zero, or or, and I think the focus over the last while has gone maybe off the off the net zero and more on security and security supply, just because of the geopolitical situation worldwide. And really we never get to that unless we have a we have a kind of wide variety of kind of renewable energy sources, and then we have some backup at the moment, that's thermal, but big innovations coming in in energy storage and battery storage and different types of storage, which will help alleviate that as well. So, yeah, I think, I think it's everything Dusty and it's, it's kind of facilitating everything, and it's building awareness in with everybody as well, like the part they play, and the part they can play, right? And it's kind of, it's awareness. And I think for for engineers, you talk to you talk there, I think some of the things that can be done around biodiversity, I think it's just understanding, right? We have an impact. And we were saying earlier, maybe people don't like change, but I'd say, maybe, right? But I'd say also, people are very busy, so it's very hard to kind of your quickest. The quickest solution is to maybe do what you did before. So we need to just change thinking a little bit, you know, as in, okay, this what I did before, but for me on a wind farm. Is it possible maybe to reduce the amount of material that needs to leave the site? Can we, kind of, can we set the roads up? Can we make better use of the of the material as they are on site? Do we need to import as much as we do all things like that around? Do we need to kind of take out hedgerows? Or can we actually minimise some, some of the impact there as well? Right? So there's, there's lots of little things that you can do that all add up to quite a bit, and managing water, managing water, managing the impact on the environment, all of that, right? There's lots of things we can do that will have a difference, yeah,

Dusty Rhodes  12:45
So what kind of practical early steps then do you take to help embed sustainability and streamline the deliverability of projects? 

Henry Wilkinson  12:55
So some of the, some of the practical steps we would take is, we would look at, we'd look at the carbon and embodied carbon in in things like where the major materials that have embodied carbon in them, for instance, right? Because that is, that is probably the biggest impact, or one of the biggest impacts. So we would look at how much concrete, how much steel we are using, and then see, well, is there an opportunity to reduce or streamline that we would also look early on in projects, how can we make them more circular, right? Or, how can we drive circularity into them, looking at what will happen at at end of life and reuse. So maybe designing things that that can be reused later on, or potential reuse later on. So that would that would come into, you know, that would look at locations where for some of the infrastructure is located, so substations, opportunities to extend them, maybe later on with population growth, and that's driving that in looking at how the sites we pick and the impact that has on biodiversity, and is there opportunity to to enhance biodiversity on some of those that won't be there in every site, particularly the urban ones, but it, but it is there, and some of the more rural ones. So So building that in, but really it is thinking about how much we use, and if I was to summarise that, I think it's reducing what we use, and also just being aware of the impact of where you are and how you can minimise the impact of where you are enough


Dusty Rhodes  14:24
And literally just be thinking that from from from day one, both of you have spoken about Mother Nature and biodiversity and everything like that. The other problem that we encounter is human beings. I hate to say it, and community engagement is hugely important to a lot of projects. And Leo, there's been a lot of controversy over the years about wind farms and all that kind of stuff. Henry, just one more question for you on this from your own experience, what are the most effective communication strategies that you have used just to build trust and have these people actually end up supporting sustainable projects?

Henry Boucher 15:00
Yeah, so I think it's really important to engage, and I'd say we have learned this over the years just if it's really important to engage early on projects and explain to people what you're what you're planning to do and work, work through community groups right work through engagement in the schools and and as you go along, right?
 It's very in some ways, it's very simple. It’s to do what you said you were going to do. So if you kind of made commitments, honour them and work, work with the community. Be conscious, right? You have an impact. There's an impact, most definitely during construction and and in some cases, right, there's been impacts after construction, right, where one or two residents might, might have been adversely infected. You’ve  seen some high profile cases there recently in the papers on that right? So I think it's, it's really on, on everybody right to, kind of, if there is a problem, face up to it and solve it, right? Don't, don't leave it, you know? And was, I think it's very much changed now, right? But if you look at it would have seen these as kind of faceless groups, right? They just come in and build a wind farm and go. But most wind farms now, right? There's a community benefit fund, and there's lots of benefits to local communities. Lots of them are used by people, right? 
They go walking around them, and that's right, they open up trails, and that as well, they produce energy. They produce energy that's kind of very important to us now, particularly with what's going on geopolitically, and that, right? So Ireland, quite a high percentage of that of energy comes comes from renewables for an island on the west of Europe, the percentage that’s come on from that. So it’s explaining what the impacts will be and what you're doing to minimise the impacts Dusty, and then following through on what you said you did. And it's not a faceless, faceless entity just developing it and gone for good.

Dusty Rhodes  16:58
Communication so important and actually solve so many problems, especially at the early stage away from communications. Terry, given the increasingly frequent extreme weather events that we're having now across the UK and Ireland, what practical design principles do you think help systems fail less and recover quickly?

Terry Wilkinson  17:19
Well, that's a great question. So we, as you, as you rightly say, you know, the more extreme rainfall we're getting now we've got some of the standards that we've got in place were written quite a long time ago, I think, particularly some of the roads and highway standards from sort of transport infrastructure Ireland and the DMRB in the UK, They’re pretty similar in terms of what they look to design to, in terms of rainfall, and I think they're kind of 30, 40, plus years old. So it was a very different environment then. So I think one of the things you need to think about is you've got a standard in place, but you'd need to think about when it hits those extremes, where the where the water is going to go. So you might design for no flooding, for sort of leaving the highway for a one in 100 year event. So up to that, you'll think, okay, where's that water going to go? Can I route it? Where can I route it to? And I think we've got, there's a lot of software capability out there now that you can accurately model these, you can put in your, your sort of ground surfacing and that sort of thing, to understand where that goes. So I think having that, utilising that technology is, is very beneficial in that regard. But it's, I think it's, it's to think about the standard design around the standard but also going beyond that and looking at what happens when it goes outside of that. Because as you say that, that is happening more and more.

Dusty Rhodes  18:51
Are you able to give me an example?

Terry Wilkinson 18:53
IF you're designing to or looking to subs and sustainable drainage systems, we've got the good practice as designed to the four pillars of water quantity, water quality, amenity and biodiversity. And historically, water quantity has always been the kind of the main issue in terms of drainage. It's an issue. Let's deal with it. Let's get it off the side so it's not causing a safety issue, which you know, rightfully so, arguably that that is one of the more kind of important pillars. But when you, when you certainly, if you look for extreme events in design to extreme events, if you can utilise other systems, like nature based solutions, and you can benefit, help to benefit nature with that, maybe with this excess water, you can look where, where you can utilise that and help it for irrigation of sort of trees and the sort of the environment habitats, where, where wildlife lives. So there's, I think there's, there's definitely opportunities to to utilise that. And maybe. In the past, we've we've just like, quickly tried, okay, let's get rid of the water, put it in the sewer and get rid of it. But if we can utilise that excess water in these in these ways, then it benefits. It has a multitude of benefits, which, yeah, say, not not just for the safety, but for wildlife and environment as well.

Dusty Rhodes  20:18
Terry, continuing on from community involvement, collaboration in general, is a hugely important across disciplines within the industry. How have you found people are working with you to achieve more environmental goals?

Terry Wilkinson 20:33
Really good. Actually. In the last sort of, in the last few years, I've had an awful lot of engagement with ecologists. In particular, I kind of went to a webinar about four years ago that was that was kind of run by an ecologist and talking about the importance of collaboration. And we've since gone on and set up a few events trying to improve communication and collaboration with the likes of engineers and ecologists. And when you, when you start to encourage that people are really, actually, really receptive to it. And I think a lot of it is about understanding, understanding it from the other disciplines point of view. So I think from engineers and ecologists point of view, often without a great deal of understanding of what each other does? You can, kind of, you can almost feel like you're, you're against each other. And, you know, ecologists might say, what? Why is the engineer recommending this? This is terrible for nature, precisely. Yeah. And the engineers thinking, Well, what? Why is the ecologist saying, you know, these, these, these nukes, are going to hold up my development and that sort of thing, I just need to get when you, when you have those discussions right from the outset, and you understand what the challenges are, you can really actually prove effective and efficient solutions that that get over those barriers that I think historically, have kind of been left till further down the line, when, when the designs set in stone or virtually set in stone, and you're just trying to kind of do the best you can, To kind of oversee a problem that maybe could have been avoided if you've had that discussion right at the start. And I think I'm certainly, I'm starting to see it more and more now, where we're discussing things right at the outset of a scheme the ecologists are inputting from their specialist side of things so can understand things like species, the types of habitats, and what needs to be done. And the engineers think, Okay, well, we could. We could have a simple solution here to to kind of help mitigate against that. If we're kind of cutting across these habitats, can we reconnect them in some way, whether that be major infrastructure, like a green bridge or an underpass or a culvert or or planting, or habitats that can be beneficial and sympathetic to that. And I think when you see it right, when you address it right from the outset, and having that collaboration, it's really beneficial. It's actually really rewarding as well, when you when you come up with those solutions together and collaboratively from the start, and then everyone's keen to kind of work towards that, that solution as well.

Dusty Rhodes  23:00
Henry for I'm gonna ask this to both of you, actually, but Henry first, for an experienced engineer listening today, all right, who's looking to deepen their role in renewable energy development? What are the key skills or knowledge areas they should focus on? Do you think 

Henry Boucher  23:19
I think for me, anyway, sustainability is so broad, like it covers such a multitude. When you start looking at everything, you nearly talk yourself out of it. It's so broad. So I think it's a bit like what Terry has alluded to. It's kind of building the understanding. So I'd focus on an area that you have an interest yourself, and you know whatever, whatever that is, if that's the biodiversity. If it's more on the technical concrete or steel, or if it's just very much a drive now on around the circular economy, and very much, I'd focus on whatever the area is. And I'd say, do one thing right, and then you can go back and improve something else. But I say just, just improve one thing is probably the way to do it. So for example, we we would have had projects where we've, we've reused some of the infrastructure. We've you reuse some of the, some of the, some of the diesel generators on battery projects. We've reused some existing ducting on projects. And that was all people who just, just did that, and kind of did it quietly, right? Wasn't it, until you ask, and you find, you find out some of these things. So, and that was all just people thinking, I actually, I could use that again, you know? And that'll work as most sustainable building might probably go when you're in at the moment, even it might be very energy efficient, but it's, it's there, right? So if you can reuse existing infrastructure, first, I would say, is probably the main thing, and then I think, focus on an area interested in see if you can make it something that makes a difference there, and then go back again. You can improve it again. Let's say, just do something. Do something,

Dusty Rhodes  24:55
I love that. That's a brilliant, brilliant attitude. Just do one thing. Just do. One thing, it's fantastic. Terry for yourself, what key skills or knowledge areas should engineers focus on if they want to develop more? 

Terry Wilkinson 25:06
 I think it's very different than it was sort of when I did my degree, however many years ago that was now too many to think about. It was, it was quite you know, you did your you did your standard things, like your structures, your soil mechanics and that sort of thing. There was very little. And when I did my education around the environment for it, it was, it was kind of a, quite a seem to be quite a new, excuse me. It seems to be quite a new sort of module within things that which is quite surprising now, so I think understanding a lot around the environment is very important for for engineering now, not just in terms of biodiversity, but everything that that links into in terms of climate change and carbon and everything else like that as well.

Dusty Rhodes  25:56
Now both of you are from very different backgrounds, but we're talking about changing the mindset. Is there anything you want to ask each other before we head off into the sunset?

Terry Wilkinson 26:09
Can ask you a question? I really like the comment that you made back there, Henry, about find something you're interested in and just kind of and do something. Do, sort of do one thing. I think that's a really, really good sort of ethos. What would you if you could kind of go back and tell your your younger self one thing, or ask your younger self one thing? I don't know. Would it be something like that? What sort of advice would you give your, your younger self starting out in your career?

Henry Boucher 26:38
I was starting out. So I'd say, I probably would say to myself, look at it's all about communication. I think probably took me a while to cop onto that one. Terry, nice. So it's all about communication. And like, the more effective you can communicate on things right, the more effective you'll be at getting buy in and getting getting things done, really. So yeah, I think, I think that's probably is right, and I probably realize you don't have to do everything yourself, right? You can get people, people will, we kind of move along and come along with you as well, right? But probably took me a while to cop on to that as well, right? But, and maybe the two of those, and can ask just from yourself. Terry, then, are you seeing people come and looking, really for more around kind of environmental and sustainability? Or do you think, at the moment, is it kind of a cost decision? I just cost always kind of coming in there, right? Or what? What do you see?

Terry Wilkinson  27:38
Cost is certainly a big factor in it, I think, and it's still often seen as a or still often thought, I think, as a nice to have, rather than, you know, we must do this. And I think, like anything, I guess, you need, you need to drive it. You need sort of policies and legislation for it, often, until it's not legislated for, things aren't going to be aren't going to be done. We're starting to see, I personally, I'm starting to see a lot more, and I think maybe some of it's due to the to the collaboration and the fact that it delivers wider benefits. So I'm starting to see more more interest, more discussion, and more more people looking at sort of environmental improvement, sustainability improvements, certainly on sort of going back to kind of wildlife, on the sort of connectivity. I think we're understanding that roads, linear infrastructure, rail, that sort of thing, is very much a barrier to wildlife. And we are starting to see that more and more, there's quite a disparity, I think, between between policy and legislation across the UK and Ireland. Each kind of nation actually has, has quite different legislation standards around a lot of it. And I think it will be nice to have a bit more of a coordinated Yeah, sort of thinking across the yeah across that to kind of help help us to to understand where we can go.

Dusty Rhodes  29:19
That's a whole other bag of worms mini series. Just listen. Let's leave it there for today. If you'd like to find out more about Henry and Terry and some of his topics that we did speak about, you'll find notes and link details in the description area of this podcast. Henry Boucher manager Civil Environmental and renewable engineering at ESB and Terry Wilkinson, highways Application Engineer at ACO technologies. Thank you both so much for joining us today.

Henry Boucher 29:48
Thanks, Dusty, Thanks, Terry. Bye. 

Terry Wilkinson 29:50
Thank you, Dusty, thank you Henry,

Dusty Rhodes  29:52
If you enjoyed our podcast today, do share with a friend in the business. Just tell them to search for Engineers Ireland in their podcast player. The podcast is produced by dustpod.io for Engineers Ireland and for more on sustainability and engineering, do visit our website at engineers ireland.ie Until next time for myself. Dusty Rhodes, thank you for listening to our special sustainability miniseries. Take care.
 

Sustainability in Engineering: Part 3 - Small Changes BIG Impact

In this episode of Amplified, host Dusty Rhodes dives deep into the future of sustainable transport in Ireland. With the 2030 emissions deadline fast approaching, the focus turns to engineering, political will, and social change needed to revolutionise Ireland’s transportation system. Joining Dusty are Professor Brian Caulfield, a leading transportation researcher from Trinity College Dublin, and Robert Sizer, Director of Engineering for UK at IESA, renowned for his expertise in major infrastructure projects like rail stations and tunnels. Together, they unravel the real challenges behind meeting climate targets, from public acceptance to the transformative power of multimodal transport networks.


THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT

  • The urgent 2030 transport emissions targets and what it will really take to meet them
  • Why Ireland’s main transportation challenges are political and social, not technical
  • Engineering solutions for decarbonising public transport: electric, hydrogen, and biofuels
  • Real-world examples: Reimagining city spaces in Dublin, Madrid, London, and Barcelona
  • The impact of major projects (metros, tunnels, and light rail) on urban life

GUEST DETAILS

Prof. Brian Caulfield, Professor in Transportation at Trinity College Dublin

Brian Caulfield is a Professor in Transportation at Trinity College Dublin. Since joining the Department Prof Caulfield has embarked on an intensive research program addressing global issues such as the environmental impacts of transport and methods to reduce the carbon impacts of transport and in 2017 he addressed the Irish Citizens Assembly on this topic. He recently provided advice to the Climate Change Advisory Council on pathways to decreasing transport emissions by 2030. Prof Caulfield is currently a member of the Steering Group for the review and update of the GDA Transport Strategy with the National Transport Authority.

Prof Caulfield has published over 200 papers in these areas and is also a member of a number of National and International research groups and is the former Chair of the Irish Transportation Research Network.

Rob Sizer, Director of Engineering for UK at AYESA

Rob is a Chartered Civil Engineer who is an experienced project manager in delivering large complex multi-disciplinary design projects. Rob is particularly experienced in managing and developing relationships with key clients and stakeholder. Such as London Underground, Overground and Thames Water and Crossrail. Rob has a strong technical background with over 15 years working across the civil engineering industry, and is highly experienced in the design delivery, process, standards and requirements for rail infrastructure, such as stations and tunnels.

 

MORE INFORMATION

Looking for ways to explore or advance a career in the field of engineering? Visit Engineers Ireland to learn more about the many programs and resources on offer. https://www.engineersireland.ie/  

Engineers Journal AMPLIFIED is produced by DustPod.io for Engineers Ireland.

 

QUOTES

"The real transportation challenge isn’t EVs—it’s humans. Social and political will, not engineering, are the hardest parts.” - Prof Brian Caulfield

"If engineers had the money, we’d be building metros and light rails right now. The solutions exist—the bottleneck is delivering them.”  - Prof Brian Caulfield

"Sustainability isn’t just about the infrastructure; it’s about minimising disruption for people and reusing space for public life.” -  Robert Sizer

"Give more space back to people, and you change how cities work and how we live in them." - Prof Brian Caulfield

"We need sustainability to be a contract KPI, not just a talking point. That’s how you get real change." - Robert Sizer

KEYWORDS

#SustainableTransport #EngineeringIreland #NetZero #ClimateAction #UrbanMobility #RailInfrastructure #Tunnels #PublicTransport #ElectricBuses #PoliticalWill #FutureOfTransport #SmartCities #GreenEngineering #MultimodalTransport #Ireland2030

 

TRANSCRIPTION

 

For your convenience, we include an automated AI transcription

Dusty Rhodes [00:00]:
 The real transportation challenge isn't EVs, it's humans. Hi there, my name is Dusty Rhodes and you're welcome to Amplified, the Engineers Journal podcast and the second episode in our special mini-series on sustainability. As engineers and a nation, we are racing against a 2030 deadline to transform transport systems across multiple engineering disciplines. The goal: seamless multimodal transport networks powered by clean energy to create a positive environmental impact. But how do we do this, and how do you make sustainability a fundamental design principle?
 Joining us to share their experience and some insights on this are Brian Caulfield, Professor in Transportation at Trinity College Dublin and a leading expert in transportation research, particularly on its environmental impact. We also have Robert Sizer, Director of Engineering for UK at IESA, who excels at overseeing large complex design projects, including those for major rail infrastructure like stations and tunnels.

 

Dusty Rhodes [01:25]:
 Rob and Brian, you're both very welcome to the podcast. Thank you for joining us.

Brian Caulfield [01:28]:
 Thank you for having us.

Robert Sizer [01:30]:
 Yeah, big thanks, Dusty.

Dusty Rhodes [01:32]:
 Let me set the scene first. In the first episode, we covered SDGs and the current state of sustainability in Ireland. Today, we're focusing on the transport sector, one which encompasses so many other disciplines, including civil, technology, chemical and all that. Brian, from an engineering perspective, can I start by asking you: what do you think are the most challenging aspects of meeting transport emission targets by the dreaded 2030?

Brian Caulfield [01:57]:
 I think that the challenges aren't engineering, to be honest. I think the challenges are political. From an engineering perspective, and Rob will be able to talk a lot about this, the delivery of big transport infrastructure is something that's been happening all across the world for decades. We in Ireland, and maybe more specifically in Dublin, haven't been delivering that type of infrastructure for decades. I think the political will to deliver them is going to be the big issue.  Also, I think socially it's a big problem too. To reach those targets of a 50% reduction in emissions by the end of the decade, it requires everybody to change how they move and change fundamentally how we operate as an economy. I think then it leads to: is that target actually feasible or is it even realistic? There are lots of challenges.
 I don't see that there are very many engineering ones. If the engineers were able to do it and had all the money in the world, we'd be building metros and light rails right now. There you go.

Dusty Rhodes [03:06]:
 We'd have it done by 2028, that's what you're telling us! All right.

Dusty Rhodes [03:10]:
 You mentioned social acceptance and stuff like that. I feel that a big driver in this area is public transport because it's highly visible. People get to experience the changes.

Brian Caulfield [03:20]:
 Absolutely. If you look at how you move people in a city, public transport is the only way you can move people in big numbers. Private vehicles, EVs or otherwise, are never going to do it.
 If you look at Paris or Barcelona or cities in the UK, they've been moving people by train, by light rail, by bus, and they're all interconnected. We haven't done that.
 It's not an engineering problem, it's a policy, planning and funding issue. And for the public, acceptance follows when people see real change working. For instance, if you put in a new bus lane or light rail and it moves people faster, people accept it.

Dusty Rhodes [04:10]:
 Rob, you’ve overseen projects in places like Madrid, London, Barcelona. From your perspective, what’s the first sustainability consideration you get on the design table when you’re starting a major transport infrastructure project?

Robert Sizer [04:22]:
 I really enjoyed listening to what Brian was saying. The key thing, for a first point, is minimising the disruption for people and users. That’s an absolute key point. But the other is about intermodal—reusing and connecting the spaces we have.
 The regeneration of cities is key here. Dublin, for example, you’ve got the Luas line, people on bikes, cars, buses. The question is how do you link those together?
 In cities like Barcelona, they’ve taken car lanes away, given space to people. Suddenly, you see life come back into the city centre.

Dusty Rhodes [05:10]:
 Brian, what’s the data say? When these changes happen—like reallocating road space—does it work? Is there kickback?

Brian Caulfield [05:18]:
 A big thing about transport and proving it works is collecting data. If it’s not counted, it doesn’t count. You can say: yes, there are however many cyclists using a cycle lane, or yes, the buses have gotten X amount faster. The research and data collection behind proving that it works is vital.
 Then you build upon that. So the second phase of say, the Dublin transport plan happened around the back of Trinity. There was very little kickback on that. Now they’re onto the next stage. Once you have evidence to prove it works, you can bring politicians and people with you.

Dusty Rhodes [06:00]:
 Rob, what are the main public concerns you encounter when you start a major project?

Robert Sizer [06:07]:
 People worry about change, especially if it disrupts their routine. But when you keep people informed, minimise the impact, and quickly show benefits—like faster commutes or better spaces—they often come around.
 A big part of what we do now is digital modelling and communication: showing how the space will look, what the benefits are, and how it’ll all work when done.

Dusty Rhodes [06:39]:
 Brian, what about the skills pipeline? We keep hearing Ireland will need thousands more engineers and upskilling for these major projects.

Brian Caulfield [06:48]:
 I’d add two things. Sustainability is about building a workforce, not importing a workforce. We want to bring in graduates, trainees, people, and build them up. These projects are not for two years—they can be someone’s whole career. Metrolink, Dart Plus, Luas extensions... Ireland needs engineers.
 We need KPIs around training, development, upskilling. Digital adoption is really key—planning, mapping, using BIM and 4D, 5D digital models to track progress and find efficiencies. It’s about capacity to deliver.

Robert Sizer [07:38]:
 Absolutely. Metro is going to require about 8,000 people working at full tilt. We need to think about where they’ll live, how we’ll upskill. In Trinity, we’re launching Ireland’s first MSc in climate adaptation. The workforce is keen and excited. But how we adapt our infrastructure for climate impacts is vital .

Dusty Rhodes [08:11]:
 There have been changes in the planning sector—new authority, new act. Will this help deliver sustainable transport faster?

Brian Caulfield [08:17]:
 It can’t hurt! Right now, there’s a huge number of projects with An Bord Pleanála. The bus corridors for BusConnects have left An Bord Pleanála and some will start construction soon.
 But the big ticket projects—Metro, Light Rail—are still with An Bord Pleanála. Planning is the bottleneck. We have a capacity issue, not enough people. We might need a model to fast-track critical infrastructure, just like in energy or water sectors.

Robert Sizer [09:01]:
 Projects like Metro or light rail are nation-scale efforts. In the past, when Ardnacrusha was built, it was a national effort. Now, we need the same—shoulder to the wheel, brave politicians to push green buttons.

Dusty Rhodes [09:28]:
 Brian, people often say, why not just use buses for everything? Can a bus network do what a metro does?

Brian Caulfield [09:34]:
 Not really. Metro, when built, will move 50–55 million people per year. For a bus network to do that, you’d clog up cities with buses. It’s a capacity issue. That’s the bus versus rail argument.

Dusty Rhodes [09:50]:
 Rob, in Europe, you see lots of cities giving free or cheap access to public transport. How important are incentives?

Robert Sizer [09:55]:
 Huge! In Montpellier, residents get free tram access. It’s a massive incentive. The more you make it easy and affordable, the more people use it. The idea is to give more space back to people and make cities work for everyone.

Dusty Rhodes [10:23]:
 Are there innovations in light rail/tunnelling to minimise disruption and carbon?

Robert Sizer [10:26]:
 Yes. In Spain and the UK, we’re trialing light rail that only removes a small layer of ground, not disturbing utilities below. Minimising construction impact, both for users and carbon.

Brian Caulfield [10:38]:
 And on the digital side, using data and modelling to find where the biggest carbon savings are—material choice, logistics, design.

Dusty Rhodes [10:48]:
 How do you future-proof all these investments?

Robert Sizer [10:51]:
 Contract KPIs. Make sustainability a KPI, not just a talking point. And upskilling - engineers need to learn new digital tools, material science, climate adaptation. That’s how we get results.

Dusty Rhodes [11:08]:
 Final thoughts—what’s the biggest thing Ireland could do to move faster?

Brian Caulfield [11:11]:
 Be bold. Invest at scale. Political leadership. The solutions exist, we just need to deliver.

Robert Sizer [11:18]:
 Upskill. Plan digitally. And give space back to people—cities are for people, not cars.

Dusty Rhodes [11:25]:
 Thanks both for sharing your expertise and insights. If you want to learn more about sustainable transport and Ireland’s climate action, check out the show notes for links and further reading.

Sustainability in Engineering: Part 2 - Engineering Urban Mobility

In this episode of Amplified, host Dusty Rhodes kicks off a special mini-series on sustainability with a powerful conversation about engineering’s critical role in achieving Ireland’s Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs).

He’s joined by Niamh Breslin of IDA Ireland and Richard Manton from the University of Galway.

Together, they explore the reality of decarbonisation, grid resilience, and the transformative influence engineers have—from infrastructure to leadership. With insights into green economy investment, education, and collaboration across sectors, this episode is both a wake-up call and a blueprint for a more sustainable Ireland.

THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT
●    The central role engineers play in achieving Ireland’s climate targets
●    IDA Ireland and their support of transformative investments in clean energy
●    How University of Galway is driving change and embedding sustainability in education
●    The importance of lifelong learning for engineers to adapt to a changing world
●    The need for engineers to work with other scientific professionals, social scientists, and business leaders to solve sustainability challenges.

GUEST DETAILS
Niamh Breslin is Sustainability Manager at IDA Ireland. Niamh manages the development and implementation of IDA Ireland’s foreign direct investment Sustainability strategy, with a focus on decarbonisation of the FDI industry, and delivery of IDA Ireland’s commitments to the National Climate Action Plan.
Niamh has significant international experience and has successfully led teams in Dublin, London, Paris and Frankfurt. Niamh has a degree in Computational Linguistics from Dublin City University and a diploma in Business Management from University of Galway. 

Connect with Niamh on LinkedIn 

Dr Richard Manton is the Director of Sustainability at University of Galway, Ireland's leading university for sustainability and a National SDG Ambassador. He was previously the Registrar at Engineers Ireland and a Non-Executive Director at Bus Éireann. Richard is a Chartered Engineer and Fellow of Engineers Ireland with a BE in civil engineering, MA in financial management and a PhD in sustainable transportation. He is the current Chairperson of the Engineers Ireland West Region.

Connect with Richard on LinkedIn

MORE INFORMATION
Looking for ways to explore or advance a career in the field of engineering? Visit Engineers Ireland to learn more about the many programs and resources on offer. https://www.engineersireland.ie/   

Engineers Journal AMPLIFIED is produced by DustPod.io for Engineers Ireland.

Further information is also available at research.universityofgalway.ie 

QUOTES

"There are companies in Ireland today that will see their Scope 1 carbon emissions reduced by 100%. This is real. It’s happening," - Niamh Breslin, IDA Ireland

"Graduates are choosing employers based on sustainability. If your climate action plan isn’t strong, you’ll lose talent," - Niamh Breslin, IDA Ireland

"Even with all of these ambitious plans, we’re only on track to hit about 23% emissions reduction by 2030. We need to be more radical," - Richard Manton, University of Galway

"Electrification and public transport are the key. It’s not just about EVs—it’s about moving people, en masse, sustainably," - Richard Manton, University of Galway

"We need engineers who can speak finance—who can sit with CFOs and show where the savings are. That’s how we get buy-in," - Niamh Breslin, IDA Ireland


KEYWORDS
#SustainableDevelopmentGoals #NetZero #RenewableEnergy #GridResilience #OffshoreWind 

TRANSCRIPTION
For your convenience, we include an automated AI transcription

Dusty Rhodes  0:00  
Hello. My name is Dusty Rhodes, and welcome to AMPLIFIED, the Engineer’s Journal podcast and our special mini series on sustainability. With new warmest year records being broken and just six years left to the 2030 Sustainable Development Goals, SDG, deadline, engineers are no longer just problem solvers. They could well be the country's first line of defence every infrastructure project and design decision that's made today will determine how Ireland hits its net-zero targets, or maybe even watch them slip away. To fill us in more on the challenges of sustainable engineering, I'm joined by Niamh Breslin, Manager of Sustainability Client Transformation at IDA Ireland. She has a strong background in sustainability policy and go-to-market strategies. She's also a leader, a coach and a mentor on the teams that she manages and collaborates with. Also with us is Richard Manton, Director of Sustainability at University of Galway. He's a Chartered Engineer with a background in civil engineering and has significant experience in sustainable transportation and policy, including roles at Engineers Ireland. Niamh and Richard, you're both very welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Niamh Breslin  1:06  
Thank you. 

Richard Manton 
Thanks, Dusty. 

Dusty Rhodes  1:09  
So let me just kind of set the scene with you both. 10 years ago, almost 200 nations agreed on the Sustainable Development Goals agenda, 17 goals of governments, businesses, institutions and tons of offices are committed to achieving by 2030 Niamh, can I ask you or and if you know Niamh, can you tell us why the SDGs were established?

Niamh Breslin  1:31  
So I suppose you know, obviously, in terms of the SDGs, we're looking at the scientific side, and we're looking at what's happening globally from a climate mitigation, climate adaption, climate change point of view. So we've all read the horror stories. We've all seen the news. We all see what's happening on a day to day basis in our own personal lives that we can, I suppose, see as more tangible in terms of changes in weather, etc. And that's probably why these goals came about. So as we know this conversation, while it might seem like something that is relatively new, this conversation has been going on a huge amount of years, just maybe less known outside of the sustainability circle, until more recent times as always.

Dusty Rhodes  2:16  
The same with the deadline, the closer you get to it, the more important it gets to more people. Richard, are you able to give us some examples then of some of these goals in the SDGs?

Richard Manton  2:26  
Yes. Dusty, I think for me, the two core strengths of the SDGs are that they're a shared blueprint. So a blueprint in that they really set out a guide to action, that, again, recognising the challenge that we have, but that we now need to move into an action phase, and also that they're shared that this was 195 or so countries coming together to agree this blueprint. So I think you could certainly argue that engineers could contribute to all 17 of the goals in different ways. But there are probably a core set where engineers will very much lead the way. And even just looking at the names of the 17 and people will be familiar maybe with the coloured 17 goals grid. But for example, affordable and clean energy. Of course, it's going to be engineers leading the way in terms of renewable energy. If you look at clean water and sanitation, the whole area of water and wastewater, again, led by engineers, sustainable cities and communities, the built environment, sustainable transport and so on. Again, engineers and leading role industry, infrastructure and innovation. Again, engineers to the forefront. That's not even getting into all the goals regarding biodiversity or health or education or gender, but even those core four or five, I think engineers will really have to lead the way.

Dusty Rhodes  3:42  
Niamh, do you find with the investments that the IDA is working on that these goals are now being reflected in engineering developments in Ireland today?

Niamh Breslin  3:51  
Absolutely, and I might just start by giving a bit more background for those who might not know who IDA are. So IDA Ireland is the Irish government agency that's tasked with winning foreign direct investment into Ireland. And then the key is supporting those clients here as they grow and build capacity. And then we work with them as they transform and they become more strategic. And this is done through upskilling or DNI and of course, their sustainability journeys. And we recently launched our new strategy for the next five years, which is called adapt intelligently, a strategy for sustainable growth and innovation. And through that, we are looking at how our client companies can play a core part in shaping Ireland in terms of being the location of choice for green powered enterprises. And so when you talk about those STD, DG goals, and how our clients are feeding into those I suppose we have to look at them in how we boil it down to kind of six key areas where we support them, and those six key areas which for us are in line with the EU taxonomy on sustainability. So they're greenhouse gasses or decarbonisation, the efficient use of water. Here, circular economy and waste, pollution, control, biodiversity and adapting to climate change. So each of those measures looks at a different area of environmental concern, and we look at those with our clients in terms of how as an organisation, IDA, is feeding into Ireland's SDG goals, so into Ireland's National Climate Action Plan. And as you will both know, and the main goal there is to reduce emissions by 51% by 2030 and to be carbon neutral by or net zero by 2040 or possibly 2050 and so with our clients, when we're looking at having those conversations, I suppose they're saying to us, what is eligible within those those conversations? And it's a number of different things, but mainly, we're looking at energy efficiency measures in different processes. We're looking at electrification of heat, if that's by heat pumps or electric boilers. We're looking at on site, renewable generation, storage to displace fossil fuels, water reuse, biodiversity so beehives, restoration of ecosystems, etc, and hydrogen production, use and storage as well. So engineers play a significant part in those areas and in those investments, and on how we talk to those clients.

Dusty Rhodes  6:24  
Can you give me an example then, of the significant parts that engineers do play?

Niamh Breslin  6:29  
Yeah, I suppose, in terms of examples that we're seeing with clients, and we've already talked about how a lot of companies, obviously, they have their sustainability agendas and they have their own corporate climate action plans, and a lot of them have site specific action plans as well. And that's, I suppose, where we come in. And so in terms of companies, for example, in 2025, so far, so in the first 656, months of this year, so far, we've had a couple of companies who have implemented innovative investments that will see them reduce scope one carbon emissions on site in Ireland by 100% so this is happening. This is real. It's happening. There are companies in Ireland today that will see their scope one carbon emissions reduced by 100% and that's fantastic. And that's done through investments in solar panels, heat pumps, wind turbines, electric boilers, battery size, storage inside, etc. And the engineers are a huge part of this, obviously, in terms of the conversations we have, generally the IDA on my team, we start out by talking to the managers, the engineers on that side who are working with that so that they are the first port of call, because they're the people who know what's happening. They're the people who understand these efficiencies. But it's not just all around the physical side. So the solar panels, the heat pumps, the wind turbines, et cetera. Huge amount of this is around the process efficiency and how the engineers are looking at things to make whether it's sustainable products or sustainable processes. So a lot of them are looking at using AI to make intelligent decisions that might be to do with the organisation's priorities or goals. They're maximising the AI driven decision making in their global network management, they're looking at more efficient systems in terms of using energy, using fewer resources, therefore consuming less power, and that all comes to a reduced system demand, and all of that leads to effective efficiencies across the organisation that the that the engineers are at the forefront.

Dusty Rhodes  8:34  
And Richard, can I ask you about your experience? Because Galway University, where you're based, is a national SDG ambassador, and you're committed to net zero emissions. What are you doing in Galway to reach that goal?

Richard Manton  8:46  
Yes, so firstly, our role as a SDG ambassador is where we were appointed by the Minister for Environment, climate action and communications to really lead the way on the SDGs. We try to promote awareness of the SDGs amongst the public, and then act as that good practice example. So we use a framework that we call learn, live, lead. So in the learn that we try to embed sustainability into our teaching and research live, how we operate the campus more efficiently, both in terms of energy and greenhouse gas emissions, but also enhancing biodiversity on the campus, and then lead that. We try to lead the way through community partnerships and so on, looking specifically, then at energy and greenhouse gas emissions, we have done quite a lot of work in the what they call the direct emissions, with the scope one emissions which come from fossil fuel burning, mostly for heating on campus. So we've managed to reduce our fossil fuel emissions by 38% against our statutory baseline. So we're well on our way to the statutory public target of 51% and we're aiming to far surpass that. But it's in the indirect area that we really have some major. Challenges. So for example, when you start to look at the procurement of goods and services, commuting or business travel, that those really are very difficult areas to tackle, because while scope one can be challenging in and of itself, in terms of replacing boilers and retrofitting some solar and so on, actually fundamentally changing behaviour when it comes to often, quite sticky systems that may be outside of the control of an organisation. For example, commuting is quite difficult and really needs a full system change. It's about working with engineers, of course, in bodies like the NTA transport infrastructure Ireland local authorities to try to engineer a more sustainable transport system, or then wider behavioural systems.

Dusty Rhodes  10:46  
And when you're talking to those people, I mean, are they open to this?

Richard Manton  10:52  
Oh, not only are they open, there are some concrete, very positive things happening on the ground. So for example, for us here in Galway, the bus connects project is starting to roll out. Part of that will serve the campus along University Road, and we will really improve the frequency and accessibility of public transport. We're also developing a greenway through the university grounds that will hopefully go on to my Colin oak, Terre and on to Clifton that will facilitate some commuting by bike. And then look, really, we need more measures that make the city safer to cycle. But that said, there are some things that are very much outside the control of both ourselves, in the university and the transport authorities, and that is a simple fact that the housing crisis is forcing people to live further outside of the city, and unfortunately, is making it much more difficult to walk or cycle to campus.

Dusty Rhodes  11:47  
I want to ask Niamh in a minute more about working with third parties, as you were saying, your challenges there, but just on the educational side of things, in which ways do the SDG influence the teaching of engineering at the University?

Richard Manton  12:02  
So that is driven very much by students, by the teaching staff, but also engineers Ireland has a major role here through the accreditation process, and that was a process that I previously managed in my role as registrar with engineers Ireland that within The accreditation the each engineering a program to gain accreditation, for example, at the Chartered Engineer standard, must meet certain program outcomes, and many of those are very strongly aligned with sustainability, whether it's in terms of design or problem analysis, or even on the the ethics and communications and management side. So engineers Ireland is from one side really driving this, but also we're seeing that the teaching staff, through their own experience, through their own knowledge, are very firmly embedding sustainability, whether that's at the theoretical side, some of the science of climate change, but also then developing these practical solutions, be they new technologies or infrastructure, or even dealing with other professions and social scientists to properly understand how we can embed sustainability across society.

Dusty Rhodes  13:07  
And have you seen a change in the mindset of student engineers over the years?

Richard Manton  13:11  
I think so. I think there's probably been a major change in the last 10 to 15 years. I think you see students are raising sustainability even coming into courses much more they've been some very positive moves at a second level. So third level isn't existing in a vacuum. I think students are really driven by the fact that they will be working as engineers. So if they graduate in 2025 they'll be working right through, likely into the 2050s and 2060s that could be a very different world. We would hope that that would be a zero-carbon world. So the skills that they gain in university today will hopefully set them up for that, and then they should engage in lifelong learning, because the world could and probably should be a very different place. And by the time they finish their careers,

Dusty Rhodes  13:59  
and these students are coming out into a world now where Niamh and the IDA are emphasising green economy investments. Niamh, can you tell me a little bit more and maybe give me an example or two of the green economy investments that the IDA are working on? 

Niamh Breslin  14:13  
Yeah, so we talked a little bit about decarbonisation there, and I suppose that is our bread and butter, because that is the key at the moment, in terms of Ireland's National Climate Action Plan is that decarbonisation goal. But I suppose what we're seeing are new trends. So the deeper we're getting into our new strategy, we're kind of seeing new trends coming up there that it's not just carbon that's becoming a talking point for our clients. In fact, water is becoming very, very topical at the moment, one client this year talked to us about their plans for a wastewater treatment plant. So water efficiency was a big part of their agenda, to reduce use, recycle more, have less waste, and with our support, the company has undertaken. In a project that will see them recycle 12 to 15,000 litres of water daily, and that will have a scope three saving of about 700 tons of carbon per year. And it's also the first of its kind to optimise on site water usage that will significantly reduce the need for wastewater treatment off-site. So that's a big change that we're seeing. But it's not just the manufacturing companies. I guess that's another change that we're seeing in terms of the projects that we're working on. And a lot of people, when they hear us talking about sustainability or what we're doing with our clients, immediately think of, you know, the big Pharma companies, the big tech companies, the big engineering companies. But it isn't just the manufacturing companies, and we are starting to see more services companies looking at their sustainability strategies. Definitely, it's a fresh focus, I would say. And we've recently worked with a services client on different measures in their building, such as heat pumps and air conditioning units and installation of EV charging points that has resulted in some scope two savings that are in line with their sustainability goals. The key here is, how do we do all of this against a backdrop of increased competition, geopolitical uncertainty and of course, that rapid technological change as well, and I guess that's kind of the spot that we're in at the moment. How do we marry the idea that we want to keep Ireland as a competitive location where companies want to set up their businesses and to grow but how do we do that while also hitting our carbon goals and our SDGs.

Dusty Rhodes  16:44  
So do you have the same thing that Richard was saying, where direct stuff is easy to deal with, but it's the indirect side of things? Do you have more difficulty with that? 

Niamh Breslin  16:54  
I suppose when we're looking at it, we're looking at it from our client's point of view. And scope three is certainly an area that's getting more and more talk at the moment, and some companies find it a little bit easier depending on what they're doing. So of course, the company that we just mentioned there, around there the wastewater that scope two emissions, but they were also looking at some scope three emissions and savings in terms of the vehicle use that would be used to transport the goods or the wastewater, etc. Biodiversity is increasingly popular, I would say, but it's more difficult. It's less tangible. It's more difficult to kind of put a pin in, but it's definitely a conversation that's coming on for sure. Scope three is more difficult, but I think what we're seeing is that the things that maybe 235, 10 years ago certainly were difficult, are now actually becoming the norm. And that's important to see that the gap is reducing between what was seen as good to have a few years ago and now is just a regulation or B. Absolutely we have to have that. 

Dusty Rhodes  18:01  
And from your point of view. Niamh, how can the engineering profession be a catalyst to making things move faster and to overcome the challenges?

Niamh Breslin  18:11  
I think Richard touched on it really well there when you talked about the next generation of engineers coming out of university. And we see that. Because if you think about the clients, a lot of times, clients will come to us, or people will say to us, why should I be interested in sustainability? What's it adding to my business? And there's a lot of really obvious answers here. I mean, you know, obviously improved risk management, because you're looking at your environmental and your social issues, and that can prevent incidents or make sure there's stability long term, there's enhanced financial performance. It has been shown that it leads to better financial performance due to increased efficiency and reduced costs. Regulatory compliance, of course, stay ahead of us. It's all coming down the line with CSRD, etc, and these companies are staying ahead of us. But the big one is that attracting and retaining talent, that's what we hear companies talk about. These engineers coming out of university now, they want to work in a company that's attractive to them because of their sustainability stance. Because of that, what they're doing, from a global point of view, in terms of having their climate action plans, that is really, really important for graduates, and that's where I see the engineers making a big impact. We know the power of movement. So engineers coming out saying, I only want to work for a company that has strong sustainability initiatives, that is committed to their climate action plans, that's committed to net zero. That's really going to put pressure on companies to ensure that they're doing these things if they wish to attract and retain the talent that they already have.

Richard Manton  19:48  
And if I could maybe add to that Dusty, because I think it that very much applies to universities, also, first of all, in terms of attracting students, be they leaving cert students or be. Day international students, that we want to be able to show that we're putting our money where our mouth is in terms of making our campus greener, both on the energy side and the biodiversity side, and that we're undertaking some very cutting edge research related to sustainability, and that we've dedicated courses on sustainability, that we want to be able to attract some of the best research staff, best teaching staff and best students. So I think for us, really having green credentials is quite important. And we're certainly very proud to be ranked as the number one university in Ireland and top 50 in the world for our action on sustainable development goals. And again, that whole perspective of reporting and transparency is very important for us as a university, as it is for companies.

Niamh Breslin  20:42  
And I think that's a great point, because it's important to note as well that there are companies in Ireland who are obviously subsidiaries of their corporate bodies elsewhere, and who are best in class in sustainability. There are companies in Ireland who are leading the way in their corporate infrastructure in terms of sustainability, there are people sitting in offices all across Ireland who hold global sustainability roles for their organisations, and to think of Ireland as a leader in the green economy. I think that's really, really refreshing, and it's also really motivational.

Dusty Rhodes  21:20  
Well, I think we definitely are, because we're seeing stories left, right and centre, how renewable energy is something like 41% of electricity in Ireland today is generated from renewable sources, which is fantastic, Dave. Can I ask you? Because you probably more on the power grid resilience kind of side of things with the projects you do with the IDA. How are we working today on renewable energy sources to improve that power grid and the resilience? Because the problem I've heard with a lot of the power grid is that the power can be generated from waves and wind, and it's fantastic, and then it goes into a battery, and then, well, the battery doesn't really hold a charge for that long. So how are we dealing with problems like that?

Niamh Breslin  21:59  
I think it's important to look at Ireland's position for renewable the renewable sector as a whole, first of all, and it's honest of me to say that our position for renewables is ambitious. And of course, offshore wind, as you mentioned, is a key part of that, but it's just one part of the government's commitment to industry and to our decarbonisation goals, of course, and we are seeing growth of onshore wind and solar, and all of those feed into our transition to net zero, but specifically on offshore wind, this is a really challenging sector, and it's relatively nascent in all countries, and not Just in Ireland. It requires significant change, and it requires very significant investment, not just to Ireland's energy systems, but the energy systems in all countries. So it's very challenging. Essentially, what you're doing is moving power generation away from population centres to our coastlines. And as we know, the infrastructure isn't necessarily readily available to be scaled or invested in there. So you know, if you if you think about Ireland, the best place to locate a wind farm, it's where the wind flows most often. And just so happens, I'm on the west coast of Ireland, and that's where the wind flows most often. I know it well. And of course, the vast majority of Ireland's infrastructure and population is on the east coast. So how do we move the energy from the west coast to where it's possible it's needed? But this isn't just Ireland. I mean, it's the same in Germany. It's the same, same in every country. And as you touched on, the primary constraint for all of this is aligning development with our grid capacity and our grid development. And the same challenges are there. You know, we need to develop more grid infrastructure faster to allow for wind and renewable growth and investment.

Dusty Rhodes  23:48  
Are you finding a demand from engineers wanting to migrate to renewable energy sources, or do you have to talk them into it?

Niamh Breslin  23:55  
No, no, I don't think we have to talk them into it. I think engineers understand the power that Ireland can have and the very strong presence that Ireland can have in the renewable sector going forward. So I think people want to be a part of that. And yes, it may sometimes feel like the engineers may feel like they're knocking down a door that doesn't want to be answered, It doesn't want to be opened, but like any change, it's not going to happen overnight. You know, you're talking about big infrastructure at scale, as quick as possible for us to maximise our potential. But it still stands. If you look at any map of Europe at the moment, Ireland is one of the best locations in Europe for renewable energy, and so in the next couple of years, as we set off down that road, and let's remember, the government does have a plan in place for renewable energy that will see us at, I think about 40 gigawatts of capacity by 2040, roughly. And I think rough four at the moment. So that's a that's a big change. So there is a plan in place. Is, but it'll start. And all plans need to start somewhere. But I do think that the engineers themselves want this as well, for sure.

Richard Manton  25:07  
I'm very glad that you've brought up the challenge of investment in our electricity grid. That sometimes in these conversations, there can be the desire to focus on the positives, but sometimes we can miss the fact that, look, this is a gigantic challenge, and to be honest, we're not on track that. Recent EPA projections show that we're even with all of these very ambitious plans implemented, we're going to achieve less than half of our emissions reductions by 2030 that will will hit around 23% whereas we should be aiming for 51% and just the reality is that we're not moving quickly enough and that we're not being sufficiently radical. Again, I do think engineers have a major role to play there, for example, in sectors like transport and heat and maybe perhaps less so agriculture, although I do think there is a role there. Also that really we do need to even further ramp up our level of ambition and take on some radical approaches. And again, that really want to encourage engineers to be part of that.

Dusty Rhodes  26:13  
You mentioned electric transport there. How can engineers develop kind of the transport infrastructure here in Ireland, everybody's talking about electric cars, all right, and those annoying little scooters to go along around by the side of the road. But how can engineers kind of think beyond that and other ways of moving people en masse using electric vehicles?

Richard Manton  26:34  
Well, I think large-scale public transport is the first place that my mind would go, even before we get on to individual EVs that it is the most efficient way of moving people, particularly within urban areas and between urban areas. And again, planning has to support that in terms of generating demand, that, of course, there are some of the big ticket items, like the Metro link, but also even one of the most efficient ways of moving people is using our bus services, be that bus, air and Dublin Bus, or some of the private operators that I think the bus connects, projects around the cities have major potential, and it's great to see that bus connects in Dublin has now brought all the corridors through planning. So again, what we want to see are high volume, high frequency, good quality bus links that then could serve hundreds of 1000s of people each day. I think getting people out of cars is the number one thing. Number two then is the public transport should then where possibly electrified. And for example, a bus Aaron in particular, has done a lot of work to electrify its fleet. For example, Athlone, relatively small service that's fully electric, and Limerick is moving fully electric. Galway will be not too long behind then as well. Quite a lot of work goes into managing those services that it's much more complicated than having diesel run busses, but again, I think having a clean and attractive bus services will help to move people out of cars.

Dusty Rhodes  28:07  
It's brilliant to speak to both of you, because you're both kind of looking at the SDGs, but from different points of view. So Niamh, I would say you're kind of more in the foreign direct investment, and Richard is kind of more with the engineers who are coming up through university. From what he has said today, what would you like to ask him to follow on? Just to add to your knowledge,

Niamh Breslin  28:29  
I think it's really interesting. And I think what University of Galway is doing is fantastic, from a sustainability point of view. I think what we need to see, and it's been touched on is kind of the ambition that that's the really important part, and the scale and the speed at which which we we get to where we need to go, in terms of Ireland's National Climate Action Plan and our goals within that. And question I might have for Richard is in terms of the courses and beyond the engineering side. And I know this is specifically for the engineers, but what kind of sustainability courses are you guys implementing or looking at for leaders in general? Because outside of the engineers, who are fantastic and as I said, our first port of call when we're talking about site specific climate action plans, tends to be the engineers and the heat managers, etc, and that's all great, but without leadership, without leaders within those organisations who are willing to get behind and get the corporate buy in, who are willing to get the funding, this stops. So is University of Galway looking at leadership courses around sustainability that will empower and help the organisations within to help win these projects and to help get that scale?

Richard Manton  29:51  
Absolutely first of all, I think again, this is an engineering podcast, but it's important for us to recognise that engineers working alone certainly would. Be capable of solving these problems, many of which may take the input from other scientific professionals, from social scientists, from business leaders and so on. So I think that is important to recognise at our undergraduate level, we offer, I think about 65 to 70 programs that are listed on the CAO. We've mapped all of those to the SDGs. And actually, I'd encourage you to go onto our website and you can see which SDGs are hit by each course. Or if you go to Research dot, University of galway.ie, you can see our research mapped to the SDGs. But then I think, Nir, maybe your question is more than at the postgraduate level, particularly for those who are already in the world of work. So two programs that come to mind. One is a master's in sustainability leadership that's delivered by our business school, and again, it's particularly targeted at business leaders. And there's also a program on management and sustainability. But then there's also one, a master's in environmental leadership, which focuses more on the scientific side and environmental leadership. So they're just two or three that come to mind. But again, there is a wide variety of shorter courses. And again, there has been the move to micro credentials, where you might, you might want to take on a full Masters, but you could take on a five or 10 credit module. And again, several of those relate to sustainability.

Dusty Rhodes  31:20  
And that's developing leaders and Richard, then I would say the same thing, because Niamh was probably coming from a financial side of things, I was going to say, from what she has said, Is there anything you'd like to ask her?

Richard Manton  31:30  
So I think one question, of course, is, and it's a difficult question, is the role of data centres. Of course, are large consumers of electricity, but I don't think we should shy away from the difficult questions. So my question would be that, what is the role of data centres and electricity consumption in the IDA strategy? 

Niamh Breslin  31:53  
So it’s a difficult question for sure, but one that IDA in general doesn't shy away from. I think we've been quite vocal in terms of our response on it. So as you may know, Ireland has about 80 odd data centres, I think, in the moment, at the moment, and scattered around the island, covering different companies, covering different industries, etc. Some of these are standalone. Some of these are belonging to companies themselves, etc. Data centres are an important part of the islands of Ireland's investment strategy, and they have been for a number of years. This isn't a new phenomena. And certainly, if we look at data centres as a whole, they're not the worst business in terms of they're actually a very clean business in terms of their setups and infrastructures and where they're based, etc. And of course, they are large energy users, as you mentioned. And IDA, along with other public bodies, we are represented on the large energy users task force of the government. So we meet monthly and discuss what we're doing across the whole entire large energy users across Ireland to discuss what they're doing in terms of their decarbonisation and in terms of hitting our national climate action plans. The reality is that with the advent and the rapid increase of AI, more data centres globally will be needed. You often see the number saying it's 10x roughly in terms of energy usage. So I don't think it's something that we're shying away from. We did recently in Ireland, see the update on guidelines in terms of data centres, and those guidelines we've been waiting on for a couple of years, is my understanding. And those updated guidelines are very clear about new data centres being built in terms of them having the equivalent on site storage that they would use from the grid. So there are new regulatory rules being put in place, from a government perspective, for new data centres being built and for current data centres in order to take pressure off the grid.

Dusty Rhodes  34:00  
And that is exactly one of the problems that engineers need to stick into brain and come up with solutions. And I think, as you said, there Niamh, where they have to have on site the same amount of energy as they will be taking off the grid. It's kind of knocking one off the other. The net zero kind of a result is what you're getting with that. Can I ask each of you then just to wrap up, because there's lots of challenges ahead. All right, if you had a magic wand where you could just fix it all tomorrow, what two or three say? Two or three things would you do to kind of accelerate the path for engineers to deliver on SDGs? Who'd like to go first with that?

Richard Manton  34:40  
Well, I think electrification is a major part of this that, again, if we look at our challenges in transport or in heating, I think electrification is is a big part of that puzzle. And then, of course, increasing further, increasing the amount of renewable electricity generation. I. Think engagement with the planning sector is incredibly important, again, that engineers don't just deliver projects on their own. I think further engagement with the planning profession and the legal profession, of course, enabled by political engagement, would make the deliverability of projects far improved. And then a word, maybe specifically about the West region of engineers Ireland, that I'm honoured to be the current chairperson of the West region, that I think we have quite a strong record in terms of advocating for sustainability, both within engineers Ireland and in our region, for example, within the Council of engineers Ireland, and then leading some exhibitions like our realised vision, vision exhibition all the way back to 2000 or the engineering the West projects in 2010 So our plan is to continue to engage with engineers in our region and to really advocate for sustainability in the west of Ireland.

Dusty Rhodes  35:58  
It seems to be that a role of engineers is to take things on, think of solutions, and then even just talking to other people, as you say, like planners, then starts making them think about it. And then everybody is going around that way. Niamh, can I ask you your magic wand? If you're able to go whoosh and fix two or three things, what would you fix?

Niamh Breslin  36:17  
Yeah, I would totally agree with Richard there in terms of its collaboration. You know, no one group is going to solve the constraints or the issues that we have around sustainability in Ireland or globally. And what we need are engineers. We need the science based people who can talk to the finance based people. And I think that's really, really important. We often, you know, talk to CFOs, and it comes down to, how does this save me money? So we need engineers that are comfortable having that conversation, understanding where the cost reduction is, understanding where the efficiencies are in terms of the cost, so that those conversations can can go right to the very top of the value chain, per se. And I think that collaboration is really important, not just internally within their organisations, but externally, as Richard said, with the other stakeholders, the other bodies involved with this. And I think that's really important. So I guess it's engineers becoming more fluent in maybe a language that isn't necessarily their first language.

Dusty Rhodes  37:22  
Well, listen, we'll leave it there for today. If you'd like to find out more about Richard and Niamh and some of the topics that we spoke about today, you'll find notes and link details in the description area of this podcast. But for now, Niamh Breslin, Manager of Sustainability Client Transformation at IDA Ireland, and Richard Manton, Director of Sustainability at University of Galway. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. If you enjoy the podcast today, do share with a friend in the business. Just tell them to search for engineers Ireland in their podcast player, and we will have the second in this special mini series, which will focus specifically on transportation in Ireland, coming from you shortly. Our podcast is produced by dustpod.io for Engineers Ireland for advanced episodes, just check out the website at engineers ireland.ie, until next time for myself. Dusty Rhodes, thank you for listening.

Sustainability in Engineering: Part 1 - Net Zero Nation

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