Talented engineers often fear that moving abroad means sacrificing hard-earned professional momentum. This mindset overlooks the reality that an engineering qualification is a borderless passport for innovation and personal growth. In this episode of our Global Engineers mini-series, we explore how top international talent selects Ireland as their professional base, bringing fresh perspectives that drive the industry forward.
We discuss how firms successfully integrate these new approaches, the cultural nuances of Irish engineering, and the actionable advice that will empower you to build a thriving career overseas.
Our guests are Munya Bakasa, a South African senior structural engineer spearheading major consulting projects, and Krystyna Dimtchev, a Polish project manager and chair of the Women in Engineering Society.
THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT
● Choosing to base careers in Ireland
● Challenges of technical language barriers
● Irish culture of collaboration and trust
● Managing complex structural engineering projects
● Advice for engineers moving abroad
GUESTS DETAILS
Krystyna Dimtchev is an Associate Programme Manager at Arcadis and the current Chair of the Engineers Ireland Women in Engineering Society. Originally from Poland, she is an IPMA Certified Senior Project Manager with extensive experience in environmental engineering and building services. She is a passionate advocate for diversity, inclusion, and mentoring the next generation of engineers.
Connect with Krystyna: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/krystyna-dimtchev
Munya Bakasa is a Senior Engineer at PUNCH Consulting Engineers. Originally from South Africa, he is a key lead on major infrastructural developments. He brings structural and civil engineering expertise to the Irish market and is a strong advocate for active travel infrastructure.
Connect with Munya: linkedin.com/in/munya-bakasa
QUOTES
"One of the biggest differences I have experienced in Ireland is the emphasis on the collaboration of openness and trust". - Krystyna Dimtchev
"You strike a better work-life balance in the local environment, as opposed to back home". - Munya Bakasa
"I've learned from them, it's not if you have the book, you have the equations, you have the calculations, but just to understand makes you a true engineer". - Krystyna Dimtchev
"Your perspective, both professionally and personally, is broadened beyond what you expect". - Munya Bakasa
TRANSCRIPTION
For your convenience, here is an AI transcription:
Dusty Rhodes 0:01
Right now, on Amplified.
Krystyna Dimtchev 0:02
One of the biggest differences I have experienced in Ireland is the emphasis on the collaboration of openness and trust. There was, and is, a very strong culture of teamwork when people at all levels are encouraged to contribute with ideas, ask questions, and challenge the thinking.
Dusty Rhodes 0:22
Hi there, my name is Dusty Rhodes, and welcome to Amplified, the Engineers Ireland podcast. One of the most often used expressions on our podcast is that engineering is a passport to the world. With an engineering degree, you can work anywhere, but it's a very outward-looking view, generally thinking of ourselves as Irish people working abroad, but what about people coming from abroad to work here in Ireland? What is it about how we do things here that attracts them? How do the firms that they work with handle the fresh perspectives that they bring, and what advice would they give to you if you're thinking of working abroad for a bit as well? In this special Global Engineers mini series. We're about to meet two international engineering leaders who have chosen Ireland as their professional base. They are a South African senior engineer spearheading major structural consulting projects and a Polish project manager who has risen to become the chair of the Women in Engineering Society. So, let's get into our conversations today with Munya Bakasa and Krystyna Dimtchev. Hello, hello. How are you, Krystyna?
Krystyna Dimtchev 1:26
Good. Thank you for having me.
Dusty Rhodes 1:29
Listen, Krystyna, let's start off with you. Of all the places in the world, why did you choose this little rock on the outer edge of the Atlantic Ocean in which to base your engineering career.
Krystyna Dimtchev 1:43
Well, I was told is the most beautiful island of Europe, as the most greener island of Europe. What I wasn't told is how great and beautiful the weather is in the island of Ireland, which obviously came with a surprise, but jokes aside, I came to Ireland in late 2004 when Poland joined the EU, and shortly after I completed my master's degree in environmental engineering and building services at the university in Poland, and originally the plan was to stay here for three months and see how we would go, and over 20 years later I'm still here, so I suppose it worked.
Dusty Rhodes 2:28
How was your English when you arrived in Ireland first? Was it good, or were you kind of... it was okay?
Krystyna Dimtchev 2:34
I would say I always underestimate myself. I think so, like you would just say that, oh, it was kind of okay, because we were taught English in school, it was just one of the key subjects, but the English we learn in school is totally different than the spoken English in Ireland, that's one thing, and secondly, just moving into the technical space of using the language is really, really challenging, so one of the first things I bought before moving to Ireland was that technical dictionary for Polish English, you know. Just the first thing I was doing when I came to Ireland was just writing down all the technical words and trying to find an explanation for them, so I understand actually the verbs and the wording used in the technical space.
Dusty Rhodes 3:20
I've heard from people who live abroad that they worry about going to hospital, and the doctors. What I hear about doctors is like engineers: a lot of the terminology is the same, and a lot of the teaching can be done through English as well. Does this apply to engineering as well?
Krystyna Dimtchev 3:36
I wouldn't say so. It's totally different. No, no, the language and the wording is totally different, so funny enough, now I will have more trouble speaking with my Polish colleagues working in Poland on the technical matters rather than expressing my thoughts in Ireland or in English-speaking countries.
Dusty Rhodes 3:55
Wow, that's funny how it goes, isn't it?
Krystyna Dimtchev 3:57
Yes.
Dusty Rhodes 3:57
Krystyna, could you share the story of how you arrived in Ireland? Okay, English getting into, you know, kind of the technical area of engineering. I mean, how did you get the job here? What's the story?
Krystyna Dimtchev 4:11
Well, I actually came unprepared to Ireland, as I was never planning to immigrate. I never had that thought in my head, and I was actually happy enough, doing what I was doing. I just was freshly graduating from college. I was lucky enough to have a job in consultancy as a design engineer, so it most probably because of the persuasive approach of my family. And then the advertisement on the TV encouraging professionals, especially the engineers and architects in Poland to come to Ireland, that there's a great place to work, that there is a lack or maybe insufficient resources in that space, and that once you have this occupation in your hand, you will be very easy to find a job, but what become. Challenge, and the lesson for me was that I arrived in Ireland in December, so looking at this now, obviously was a very bad decision, and I came unprepared, but also now knowing how the November, December goes, nobody thinks about hiring, it's more about Christmas parties and Christmas shopping and celebrations, so I struggled for nearly three months, yeah, around three months to find a job in my occupation. Nevertheless, I was just doing all other jobs, which came available to me, so I was a shop assistant, I was a cleaner, I was working in a factory, just to keep, you know, the money kind of good, you know, not to expend too much. And then it was late February, early March, when I just found a job in my occupation.
Dusty Rhodes 5:50
I know the language was something you were getting better at all the time, and then the terminology was something that you had to learn as well. How was it, other than that, kind of integrating into an Irish engineering industry, I mean, was it very similar to what you were expecting in Poland, or are we complete nutters?
Krystyna Dimtchev 6:07
Well, noters in a very positive meaning. I really, really enjoy that, and to me, it's just have only a positive meaning. But I think, like, from the technical point of view, the engineering principles are quite consistent, so the fundamentals don't really change, but culturally there are differences in how engineering is practised and how people work together, and as I mentioned, I didn't have too much experience working as an engineer in Poland, but that became apparent really when I came to Ireland, and I think one of the biggest differences I have experienced in Ireland is the emphasis on the collaboration of openness and trust. There was, and is, a very strong culture of teamwork when people at all levels are encouraged to contribute with ideas, ask questions, and challenge the thinking in constructive way. And actually, the hierarchies tend to be less rigid than in Poland. I believe that that creates more inclusive environment and also encouraged the innovative and outside of the box thinking. Also, I think that just in general, Irish people are more approachable and willing to help, which absolutely makes a significant difference, especially in my early days in Ireland, that I was never made feel uncomfortable, or as you know, stranger, they were always open to help me and let me actually grow, let me ask the questions, show me how it's being done, and I really approach that early, especially in the early days, the coaching and mentoring, especially from the people from the trades background, not only engineering, but more trades background that weren't as strange to me as an engineer, but not as strange to me as also a female being abroad in engineering and construction industry.
Dusty Rhodes 7:54
Krystyna, could you walk us through the most technically complex engineering problem that you think you've ever solved.
Krystyna Dimtchev 8:03
I think my most technically difficult engineering problem I've ever solved, it was actually finding myself in that situation, survive and grow, because I know it's like maybe a wishy-washy answer to your question, but I think the biggest challenge for me, because other than that, like, I had great basis, I had great fundamentals in terms of how I was trained in college, and actually the people I was dealing with here in Ireland, and my managers and employers were quite keen on that. I think in some areas what I have achieved and learned from college was going much forward than what they were expecting from a graduate in Ireland. Just finding myself in that space and trying to explain myself and trying to, you know, design probably systems, or I started not in Ireland as on the construction sites, so something which I haven't done before, because I was working as a design engineer, so like going to sites and you know, looking at the system, understanding how the actual book knowledge works in real life, and finding the solutions of the problems in terms of why this pump is not working, why is the pressure drop, what could cause that, you know, so just going beyond that book knowledge and trying to find the real life examples that huge support I got from the people of trade, that you know they didn't have that book knowledge, maybe, but they knew what they understand the trick of the engineering problems, and that's what I've learned from them, is not you have the book, you have the equations, you have the calculations, but just to understand those ones makes you a true engineer, I think.
Dusty Rhodes 9:52
Maybe can you tell us a little bit about your role at the moment, and where you're working, and just give us a flavour of what you do?
Krystyna Dimtchev 9:58
Yeah, sure. Currently I work. At Arcadis it's a global consultancy with around 37,000 employees all over the world, and in my current role I work in the global strategy implementation and programme management, where I support programmes focused on integrated assurance, internal audit, risk management, physical security, but also in the space of strengthening the governance across the complex global initiatives, so it's kind of, you know, far away, maybe you may think from the engineering background, because that was my career progression, I started as an engineer and then moved more into the project portfolio and programme management, as that was my area of interest, but along the years I built my experience on the construction sites, then moved into consultancy, and then actually that broadened my horizons and my knowledge and expertise in various areas and across various projects and allowed me to expand further beyond engineering, while the engineering has played a crucial role in my development.
Dusty Rhodes 11:09
Can I ask you about that? Your basic engineering training, all right, because it just applies to so many roles in life. How did that basic engineering training help you with the management role?
Krystyna Dimtchev 11:20
I think there are some transferable skills, so we mentioned the problem solving, logical thinking, just being focused like strategy orientated, but also having that incline of finding solutions to the problems, so it's not like you know seeing a problem, it's looking beyond that and trying to find a solution, and being organised and directed. I think they are just the key core skills you can transfer between, you know, the various roles.
Dusty Rhodes 11:53
They are good basics, all right. That does help, but did you need then to get kind of extra training or do extra studying, then to take on more kind of management specific skills, or skills I should say, that help you with managing people and projects.
Krystyna Dimtchev 12:06
Yeah, depends on how you are built and constructed, and your background, like if you have that in you. But obviously you do need training, or I believe you do need training. Training always helps, the same as when, if you're an engineer, you want to progress your career, you just attend, you know, continuous development trainings. You want to grow, you want to know what's happening in the industry and what is happening across various sectors. So, the same with the project management. I felt that I need training, and I got trained, so I got a certification from the International Project Management Institute. So, there were various levels in there, so I'm certified senior project manager by that organisation.
Dusty Rhodes 12:46
Is it possible then that from your upbringing it was a different experience as a teenager? It was a different experience in college. Maybe there's different ways of teaching in college, and just a, you've a different viewpoint on the world just from the fact that you were brought up somewhere else, did that help you here, or did it help the people who are employing you here to have you there, and kind of go, well, do you know what, maybe you could try this, and it's a whole fresh viewpoint for them.
Krystyna Dimtchev 13:13
Yeah, I think it's the mindset and being focused. Usually, I don't like generalising, but just make a short generalisation here. Polish people are usually very ambitious, quite well organised, and very focused. This is the way I was brought up as well, and Courage, saying, like, you know, despite that you're a woman, it's whatever you want to achieve. If you push your mind and thought into it, you can just do anything you want to challenge yourself, and this is actually kind of my motto. Like, when I'm scared or afraid of something, to me it's just to push the boundaries, just to go over beyond that. Like, I need the time to adapt, but then I would just push it, because I just don't want to fear the fear. I just want to just get over that and be empowered by that change.
Dusty Rhodes 14:02
There's something about being not in your regular surroundings that makes that easier, and I've heard that from many people who have lived abroad, where it's kind of, well, look, you show up in wherever, Sydney or South Africa, wherever it happens to be, and you will do things you wouldn't be caught dead doing in Dublin or in Ireland, like you know, and I just think it's a wonderful advantage to have. It sounds like you've had something similar, Christina. To wrap up, for any other international engineers who are listening right now, we do have people abroad and they're thinking of making a move to Ireland. What is a real piece of advice that you would give them to help them succeed?
Krystyna Dimtchev 14:38
I would say don't think about it too long, life is too short. You can always make your move back, but you're not losing anything, but actually deciding on the move, and just give it a try. It's better to say, I've done it, it didn't work, I didn't like it, rather than wonder about what will happen if, and I think that's quite important, and I'm just trying. To adapt that thinking in everyday life is just don't put too much thought and try it and decide for yourself.
Dusty Rhodes 15:10
Well, Krystyna, thank you so much for your insights today. And thank you so much for making Ireland your home. It's great to have you.
Krystyna Dimtchev 15:16
Thank you very much.
Dusty Rhodes 15:22
Let's turn now to Munya Bakasa, a South African senior engineer who's spearheading major structural consulting projects and get his experience of here in Ireland. Munya, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
Munya Bakasa 15:34
Oh, thanks for having me. Dusty.
Dusty Rhodes 15:36
Tell me, of all the places in this fine planet that we work on. Why did you pick Little Old Ireland to come?
Munya Bakasa 15:46
The first primary consideration it had to do with the time zones, like we South Africa and Ireland are only about an hour apart during the Irish summer and two hours apart time difference during the winter, so that means, like, regarding making such a big change, although I'm changing altitudes, like I'm not changing much regarding, like, my normal way of life, like, you know, things I enjoy watching on the telly, like I enjoy football, you know, like the Premier League, so I'm not too far removed from maintaining my lifestyle in that way.
Dusty Rhodes 16:25
Yeah, you're keeping that familiarity, and it's a connection with home, and I know that with people who are living in Australia, it's a nightmare, because there's a level hour time difference. But for you, between South Africa and Ireland, everything's pretty much as close as it can get.
Munya Bakasa 16:40
Exactly.
Dusty Rhodes 16:41
Did you consider the engineering scene here in Ireland as an attraction?
Munya Bakasa 16:47
Oh, absolutely. So I had to do a deep dive. Initially, I was just looking for experience abroad, you know, like within my career, but then when I did a deep dive, it's a bit ironic that the housing crisis is perhaps one of the primary drivers, because you could see from the outside looking in that there was a big emphasis on infrastructure development, you know, and Ireland, to an extent, is kind of playing catch up to the rest of the European continent, but still delivering infrastructure like at a world-class standard, and their commitment to the financial pipelines of funding these projects, like, goes to show that there was a lot of work to be done, and they have a huge appetite for people who would have my expertise, so it was an ideal location to find myself in.
Dusty Rhodes 17:45
How long are you here now, Munya?
Munya Bakasa 17:48
I am here for about three and a half, going towards four years.
Dusty Rhodes 17:52
Ah, okay, so relatively recent. Okay, I think it's interesting that you say Ireland, in an engineering sense, still has a lot to catch up on in an international standard, it's great to hear that point of view. Why do you say that?
Munya Bakasa 18:04
Part of my work at the moment has to do with the active travel projects, you know, like the pedestrianising of urban environments and cycle lanes, and you know, traffic calm, and to make environments more suitable for pedestrians, more so than a car-centric approach. When you look at other cities, perhaps I could say London, like in Amsterdam and Barcelona, like they have managed to develop these infrastructure, you know, to a large extent, and these are way more massive cities, but then when you go to the smaller cities in those countries, perhaps the infrastructure is not as developed, but then a fantastic thing about Ireland is like I'm staying in Limerick, which should be, depending on who you ask, the third or fourth biggest city in Ireland, but here in Limerick, like you can see the focus on these active travel projects, and like big parts of the city, now actually incorporate these active travel, so you know, like, as much as they're playing catch up to what other larger European cities have to date accomplished, they are doing it more wide scale, even in the smaller cities in Ireland, whereas the other major European countries might not perhaps have the same focus in their smaller cities as opposed to larger cities, we're ahead in some ways and behind in others. Is that what you mean?
Dusty Rhodes 19:33
Absolutely. Many, tell me about coming to Ireland. Did you know anybody here before you moved? Did you have any kind of a support network, or did you just land and went? Hello,
Munya Bakasa 19:43
I'll say the route between South Africa and Ireland is now a well-beaten path, like several of my former classmates in university had relocated to Ireland, I'd say around about pre-COVID five. Time, you know, and they had told me about their experiences here, you know, like in Ireland, and it sounded like an experience how to want it for myself as well. So, there is a good channel of talent between the two countries. I'd say perhaps at the moment it's more one-sided, that it's more so people coming from South Africa coming towards Ireland, but there is a decent amount in the other direction as well.
Dusty Rhodes 20:27
So, having friends and some kind of a support network socially certainly is terrific here, but I mean, your friends aren't going to get you a job. What kind of networking, what networking platforms did you use that helped you get your foot in the door?
Munya Bakasa 20:40
So, I'd say LinkedIn played a major role regarding the move. What happened was I got in touch with a recruiter initially through a friend of mine, but then that recruiter let me know that they had left the company that they were working for and they weren't in that industry anymore, but then they pointed me in the right direction via LinkedIn, and all it took was just that initial engagement to express interest, and from there it just took off like a rocket, like the process was like very quick, I would say, like I was actually impressed by, you know, the rate at which the recruiters were making an active effort in terms of trying to acquire talent from South Africa for the local companies.
Dusty Rhodes 21:26
So you were able to get in touch with a recruiter on LinkedIn, and then it was the recruiter who got to the job that you eventually got. Yeah, yes, yes. What was the biggest single challenge that you had when you arrived here, because you're coming from, you know, a very distant part of the world. Ireland is, you know, kind of, we have our own little foibles and way of doing things and way of looking at things and stuff like that. How was that a challenge for you arriving in on that in the engineering industry here?
Munya Bakasa 21:56
An initial challenge I'd say I had is I'm coming from a country that also recognises English as one of its main languages, right, but then you'd be now subject to accents you know that perhaps you weren't familiar with, like before, and Ireland is also unique, that you go to Dublin, you get one accent. You go to Cork, you get another one. You know, you go to Kerry, just depending on where you are on the island, you're gonna get a different version of English. So, initially I'd say it was a bit of challenge in that, but you learn to adapt. Other things I'll say perhaps that required a bit more getting used to was the weather, like I'd be lying if I say I arrived and the weather was just fantastic. It took a bit of time to actually acknowledge that, particularly in the winter, you know, it is going to be wet for the most part, but then what I actually liked about that experience is that the Irish have taught me a different kind of resilience in that, whether it's raining or whether it's not, like people go on with their lives, like you know, people don't stop doing activities or their jobs or whatever, because you know of what it's like outside, so like it's a different kind of mental toughness, yeah, that you learn, and I would say I love the rain now.
Dusty Rhodes 23:33
Oh my god, what have we done to it? Well, you're in the right place if you like rain, because, as you know, in Ireland it's either raining or it's going to rain. They're the only two bits of weather we have. So there we go. Listen, Monia, give me a lowdown on where it is that you have found yourself working. What kind of a role do you have, and what are you doing
Munya Bakasa 23:53
at the moment? I'm working for Punch Engineering Consultants. I'm a senior engineer in their civils department, and we have like a wide range of projects, like that is one thing I have a lot of like work, plenty of it to be done, like, and it ranges between so roads, like basically the design and delivery of road projects as well, because we would also be doing the construction monitoring, and when you have roads or any kind of buildings, you require drainage, right?
Munya Bakasa 24:23
So the drainage that would encompass, you know, like the foul source and the surface water drainage as well, and with the drainage also comes the sustainable urban design systems, so these are systems where we're trying to reduce the amount of material we actually used and take on board more sustainable and natural materials to deliver drainage solutions, so maybe in the past. Where you might have just put a solid concrete tank, now you'd look more so to provide infrastructure that has more uses, like that has an ecological use, you know, that that can be a playground. You're gonna, instead of providing a tank structure, you want to develop maybe an attenuation area that can be a play field as well, you know, that could double up and then provide more environmental sustainability and ecological use. I also work on projects where we're doing water mains, you know, just the provision of portable water, like getting it from one point to the other, at times you're having to take it from underground, at times you're just connecting to Irish water, like you know, and variations around the provision of portable water. I would say, yeah, and also, like I mentioned before, the active travel schemes as well.
Dusty Rhodes 25:55
Tell me, of which of the core projects that you've been working on did you enjoy the most, and why.
Munya Bakasa 26:02
Okay, so this will supplement what we spoke about earlier, as well. We were talking about my reasons for relocating to Ireland. One of the main drivers was that South Africa would be a very vehicle-centric place, like a lot of design is designed for driving around, and you know, I really wanted to cycle to work, you know, like I had done a lot of driving whilst I was in South Africa working there, and every day I would express my desire to, like, I just want to cycle to work, that's, you know, and I found that Ireland was very compatible with that desire to cycle to work, and then, ironically, then I came, then I joined, and now I'm delivering active travel jobs, like I'm actually putting down the infrastructure that I'm getting to use the following day to cycle to work, you know, so it managed to accommodate a long time passion for me regarding wanting to cycle to work. I thoroughly enjoy the design and the delivery, like active travel jobs.
Dusty Rhodes 27:10
One last question for you today, for other international engineers who are listening around the world, and there are a few, and they're thinking of moving to Ireland, what kind of real world advice would you give them?
Munya Bakasa 27:23
I'd say it's primarily dependent on the environment in which they're coming from. Say they were coming from South Africa, and I was to provide advice. I would advise them that here in Ireland you get more well defined roles in terms of your execution as a civil engineer, so just to provide a contrast, like in South Africa, you'd have a more multifaceted role as a civil engineer, and you know, like, it's a different economic environment there, so the expectations placed upon you as a civil engineer, you might find yourself having to do a bit of the work of a quantity surveyor, you know, a bit of the work of different professions, all within your role, which you know inadvertently has a bit of an impact on your resource management, like including your own personal time. So, if you were relocating here, I would say, like, it's more well defined, like you can better manage your time, you can better manage your teams, you know, you strike a better work-life balance in the local environment, as opposed to back home. It comes across as though they take mental health, and you know, your personal health as an individual in the workplace, it's emphasised that you strike a good work-life balance, particularly like in my place of employment, punched like that will be something that they take very seriously, that you know, as much as you can enjoy your work and be productive, you are also provided ways in which you know outside of work to improve yourself in that particular way, yeah, yeah, that will be one aspect I would highlight upon from the Irish experience of practising engineering.
Dusty Rhodes 29:12
This is what I love about getting your viewpoint, because I don't think a lot of us would have considered that, that's really interesting, but a lot of us, then also, I mean, I meet people all the time, and not just in engineering, it's like, oh, I wouldn't mind living abroad, and then they never do. All right, you're somebody who has here kind of drag yourself up, and you've said, all right, I'm gonna live abroad. What would you say to somebody who's listening, and they're just thinking, I'd love to live abroad for a while? Recommend it.
Munya Bakasa 29:38
I would absolutely recommend it. Your perspective, both professionally and personally, is broadened beyond like what you expect, because you know, like, before you go to a place, you research the place, you know, and then you try and place yourself in that environment, you know, you can't have an idea what you're getting yourself into, it's only. Once you get into it, that you actually see for yourself, like you know, like how it can be such a rewarding experience. And I would also say to someone who's considering living abroad, no one is condemning you to live there for the rest of your life, like it's an experience that you could try out, and if it doesn't work, you could always either try somewhere else or go back home. Yeah, but it's the attempts, you know, that will bring reward in different aspects of your life.
Dusty Rhodes 30:29
Munya, I'm delighted everything is working out so well for you here in Ireland. We're delighted to have you here. And thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
Munya Bakasa 30:39
Ah, thank you. Thank you for your time, Dusty. Much appreciated.
Dusty Rhodes 30:43
My thanks to both Munya Bakasa and Krystyna Dimtchev earlier for sharing their insights with us on the podcast. If you'd like to learn more about Munya's structural work at Punch Consulting Engineers or Krystyna's leadership at Arcadis, or to get involved with the Women in Engineering Society, check out the links in our show notes. We do hope you enjoyed this episode of our Global Engineers mini series. If you know another professional or student who's interested in the changing face of engineering in Ireland, please share this podcast with them. They can find us simply by searching for Engineers Ireland wherever they listen to podcasts. This episode was produced by justpod.io for Engineers Ireland from myself Dusty Rhodes. Thank you for listening.