Wednesday 10 December 2025
Successfully transitioning from university to a professional engineering career is a critical moment for any graduate, and the application process requires strategic preparation beyond just academic competence.
Many students struggle to understand what employers truly seek in a new engineer and how to showcase their potential effectively.
This episode unlocks the secrets to a standout graduate application, sharing direct insights on core soft skills like communication and teamwork, the role of mentorship, and the career growth trajectory within leading firms. Learn about the value of different-sized companies, from large-scale multi-office execution to a hands-on, personal approach, and the importance of professional development and diversity initiatives. Host Dusty Rhodes is joined by two exceptional industry leaders: Michelle O'Hagan, Group Graduate Recruitment Manager at PM Group, and Bill Bates, Director at DBFL
THINGS WE SPOKE ABOUT
● Why graduate programs are essential
● Big vs small company advantages
● Soft skills employers demand now
● Successful career progression examples
● How to make your application stand out
GUEST DETAILS
Michelle O’Hagan is the Group Graduate Recruitment Manager at PM Group, a leading global project management and engineering company known for delivering complex capital projects worldwide. She manages the full graduate recruitment lifecycle across PM Group’s international offices, ensuring the company attracts top emerging talent. Michelle's extensive experience, including prior roles at Deloitte UK and Citi Bank, makes her an expert in understanding what drives success in early engineering careers.
Bill Bates is a Director at DBFL Consulting Engineers, one of Ireland's leading civil, structural, and transportation consultancies. Bill is responsible for overseeing the Civil Engineering team and has extensive experience in the design and delivery of major infrastructure and development projects across the country. As a Director, Bill is deeply involved in DBFL's Graduate Development Programme and the career progression of their staff, making him a key resource for understanding the pathways to Chartered Engineer status and professional success within the Irish engineering sector.
QUOTES
● "Confidence, talking about themselves, talking about their other aspects, their engineering career is only at the start, so they have very little to talk about in that. But I want to know what they've done to date. Tell me about themselves." - Bill Bates
● "The actual programme itself is a two year programme, but it runs in parallel with your job. So you're permanent from day one, you don't have to re-interview for a role on completion of the programme, which a lot of graduate programmes in our industry does." - Michelle O'Hagan
● "Be confident in your own ability, but be able to show humility and be able to listen to all others perspectives." - Bill Bates
TRANSCRIPTION
For your convenience here is an AI transcription.
Dusty Rhodes 0:01
Right now on AMPLIFIED
Bill Bates 0:03
Confidence, talking about themselves, talking about their other aspects, their engineering career is only at the start, so they have very little to talk about in that. But I want to know what they've done to date. Tell me about themselves. Tell me about their their hobbies that would interest me.
Dusty Rhodes 0:21
Hi there. My name is Dusty Rhodes, and you're welcome to AMPLIFIED the Engineers Journal Podcast and the third and final episode in our special mini series an engineer like me last time we spoke to students about maximising their time in University. Today, we're taking the next critical step and hearing directly from graduate employers. They'll be sharing how you can best prepare for that all important graduate application, what it takes to stand out as a new engineer and the clear paths to building a long and successful career within the industry. We're joined by two exceptional industry leaders, Group Graduate Recruitment Manager at PM Group, Michelle O'Hagan, and Director at DBFL Bill, Bates, Michelle and Bill, you're both very welcome. Thanks for having us. Dusty, thank you. So listen. The first question I have to ask is, why do you have a graduate programme in the first place, Bill?
Bill Bates 1:12
Well, the, the first thing we seen does day from early doors was we were getting these traditional academics, let's say, with college degrees, but they offered very little to the industry and usefulness to clients directly. So we seen that we needed to get them more in a structured fashion, to get them from that academic world that they learned all of this great mathematics, physical sciences and whatever, and try and use their skills to develop them into the future engineers, to be able to solve problems, meet our clients objectives. We established our Graduate Development Programme, which, I suppose, from Michelle's perspective, we were, we were in a in a smaller organisation at the time, maybe 100 or so at that time, we felt we needed to put some more structure onto our graduates and get them in a more efficient way from graduate to professional status with Engineers Ireland.
Dusty Rhodes 2:13
And Michelle, can you tell us briefly about the Graduate Programme at PM Group?
Michelle O’Hagan 2:16
Yeah, of course. Our Graduate Programme, has been our formal Graduate Programme has been established since 2006 to date, we've had 1500 students come through the training. The actual programme itself is a two year programme, but it runs in parallel with your job. So you're permanent from day one, you don't have to re interview for a role on completion of the programme, which a lot of graduate programmes in our industry does. So that's, I guess, a benefit to the students, but the training itself is a blended learning approach, and by blended, what I mean is 80% of it is on the job training, because engineers face unique challenges daily, and we can't replicate that in a classroom. And 20% then is formal training, and that's where we would cover the engineering disciplinaries, the sectors we operate in the clients we work with, and also those soft skills, communication, time management, teamwork, problem solving, and again, it's bringing it to industry standard. So when the students go out, they're comfortable in doing so we also assign students a dedicated mentor. So we have a mentorship programme within pm group, and the students are assigned a mentor that is in the company anything from five to 10 years, and they're there to give them advice around career progression, any challenges they encounter, and even just to have a conversation, somebody to talk to if they have if they need advice. So yeah, that's just a bit about the Graduate Programme.
Dusty Rhodes 3:35
Grand, but listen, just so for anybody listening to get an idea of because we're looking at two really different kind of situations, which is great, because we're getting experience from two different angles. PM, Group is a much larger group. Just in a sentence. How big is it?
Michelle O’Hagan 3:49
We have 4,000 people working for us now, that milestone we hit about two weeks ago. So that's hot off the press. I actually don't think we put that externally, so you've heard it here first. I think the announcement is going out in January. So yeah, you've heard it here first, but yeah, we're delighted to have 4,000 poeple.
Dusty Rhodes 4:05
And you've offices all over the country.
Michelle O’Hagan 4:08
Yeah, Ireland, UK. Asia, Europe and the USA, multiple offices in those locations.
Dusty Rhodes 4:14
Whereas Bill DBFL is kind of it's a smaller organisation, and there's a huge amount of advantage to that as well. Tell me about that?
Bill Bates 4:21
Yeah, in the say we are a mere 2,00 employees, but we're strategically positioned across the country to be able to serve our clients in a more efficient manner. That small, personal, handheld approach, let's say, for our clients, is one of our benefits and one of our strengths, and our clients keep returning to us. We have many return clients that the prefer that level of service. Want to take them from the start of the project right through to the end,
Dusty Rhodes 4:50
and from a graduates point of view, then it's also nicer working in a smaller company, because it's easier to kind of get to know people, whereas in a larger company, you can get lost.
Bill Bates 5:00
Can't speak for Michelle, obviously, in PM group, but I have worked in larger organisations. I'm very familiar. You do tend to get a little bit pigeonholed a little bit in the larger organisations. With the smaller we we can offer that variety. We have the flexibility to move young graduates around. I mean, as an example, even though we've 200 people working for dbfl at this point in excess. Just over we have 50 graduates on our programme at the minute. Okay, at various levels, yeah, moving towards some, moving towards chartership, some, just recently, starting there in September.
Dusty Rhodes 5:36
Listen, tell me your 50 graduates in there. What kind of projects are they typically working on?
Bill Bates 5:40
They work on everything across the board. Obviously, the housing crisis is always the biggest one on the agenda, but we do work for many of the larger housing developers across the country. We'd be working in heavy civil engineering projects. We'll be, I mean, we do a lot of work at Dublin port. We do a lot of we've even done work at Dublin Airport. We've recently come off the back of Ross lair Europort as part of a design build project to open up and expand that area. We also work in transportation and building structures. We we're heavily involved in active travel public realm, and you know, the highly focused schemes like the new velodrome out in Blanchardstown. We've just recently got away.
Dusty Rhodes 6:24
Michelle, I imagine you are very simply and you're working across a huge, wide brief of projects. Tell me graduates that are working with you, what kind of work are they typically doing?
Michelle O’Hagan 6:35
So again, similar to Bill, our graduates are getting a variety of work as well, something that's quite unique to ourselves. We specialise in pharmaceutical mission critical. Mission Critical is basically data centres, okay, and food and beverages and advanced manufacturing. So when the students come in as a graduate over the course of the two years, they could be working on multiple projects, depending on what part of the project to join. So we could have a graduate sitting in Dublin, but they're doing multi office execution, supporting projects in Boston, supporting projects in Poland. So they're getting an introduction to working with multicultural employees and the departments as well. They also will get exposure to not only one of those projects over the course of the two so on completion of the programme, they're able to decide which project or which area of interest they want to focus their attention on. And so be it pharma, and then they can start specialising as well.
Dusty Rhodes 7:32
Okay, cool. And what kind of hands on, kind of decision making Do you allow?
Michelle O’Hagan 7:37
Yeah, so our graduates are given responsibility from day one, we feel that's the best way to learn, not necessarily thrown in at the deep end. There is support networks in place, of course, and they have their line manager, direct manager, and then the team that surrounds them, but we do give them challenge and work. They're assigned to a project team, and that could be with any one of our tier one clients on site, and some of them get the opportunity to go out and be based directly on the client site as well. So as part of our programme, there's a mandatory six month site placement, and we feel that that's where they're able to put the theory that they've learned in university into practice and the skills that they've developed on our programme into real life situations and projects that we're working on.
Dusty Rhodes 8:18
And Bill, can I ask the same with yourself, with the graduates who are working with you, when you take them in, what kind of hands on autonomy do you give them with their projects?
Bill Bates 8:25
They're largely very similar to Michelle. The unfortunate thing is, with young graduates, they they have that limited knowledge, that limited ability, but what we expect from is to show that level of enthusiasm, yeah, for the work, they will share the workload. They will be working alongside their line manager. They will not be given complete autonomy. They will be allowed to make engineering choices. What we tend to focus on early in their career is the technical element, ensuring that they have the necessary skills to increase their experience, and also to increase their confidence. When they get that confidence, we let them run with it.
Dusty Rhodes 9:07
That's the key to it. Okay, grant so there's a certain element of kind of proving yourself.
Exactly, It's not even a question. I mean, as we always say, the diamonds will always shine. They will always come to the top. Those guys that show their confidence show their ability. I've take that knowledge from the college experience, their days, their communication, being able to communicate openly, and naturally, those guys will will be the ones that will take on those challenges early. Some may not. Some may just have to bring those skills up a little bit further as they progress. And our Graduate Development Programme has been established to help with those sort of things. They will be able to shadow the senior engineers, senior management positions, listen to, let's say, our bad voices on the phones and on meetings they can overhear. They can learn by just rubbing shoulders with,oh yeah, just to just begin the office.
Bill Bates 10:05
Yeah, the challenges from your peers actually assist you.
Dusty Rhodes 10:12
That's it. Now, you said that the diamonds always shine, right? But rarely is it that all just technical competence with somebody. There are other qualities outside of you know, it's kind of the technical side of things. What kind of soft skills are you looking for? Have you found that winning graduates have?
Bill Bates 10:31
Be confident in your own ability, but be able to show humility and be able to listen to all others perspectives? That is key, if you don't take on other people or listen to other other industry professionals, other forms of engineering, other quantity surveyors, project managers, the best time to see is either you're the leader or someone else is leading. There can't be two leaders. That's sort of a contradiction in the industry. But learn to listen to learn to open your mouth when you can.
Dusty Rhodes 11:05
What about silly questions? Bill? Because quite often you'd be sitting there and you're a newbie, and you kind of go, I don't want to look like an idiot. I feel like that all the time in interviews.
Bill Bates 11:14
Look, I am the sort of person to always ask stupid questions. All right, okay, no problem with asking them, yeah. The trouble is, there's a time and a place for them. I can get away with asking the stupid question now, yeah, best thing is to be, you know, quiet until you feel you have something to say. Grand, okay. And but by all means, if you do not understand something, and as Michelle alluded to earlier, she works in or the organisation, works in data centre, work at pharmaceutical that tends to be led by, you know, American centric companies or European centric companies. They tend to use briefs and three letter acronyms for everything, yeah. And sometimes you just have to put your hand up and say, Well, does that stand for Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's things like that. But as I say it, from my perspective, young engineers, as long as they show confidence in their own ability, that's the main thing, and that's key.
Dusty Rhodes 12:09
That's Michelle, with yourself, outside of the kind of the technical side of things, what are the important soft skills with you?
Michelle O’Hagan 12:17
Yeah, for us, and I touched on them earlier communication going into project management, being a strong and effective communicator is essential. Being clear, concise and well structured. It just helps managing expectations and resolving issues quickly, which is essentially what we need to be doing when we're working on projects. Time management, again, is really important, because students, they may have experience in this with juggling assignments. But when it comes into the world of work, they could be juggling plenty of deadlines for various projects, and when you're working for a client, we need to be meeting those deadlines. There's costs involved if you don't, so that can be quite stressful, and being able to manage those deadlines is really important as well. And then teamwork is crucial. Everything we do is based within a team. You will rarely work solo, so being able to collaborate, well, being able to work with diverse groups, a team, and then finally, problem solving and critical thinking. I don't think there's an engineer that isn't probably a problem solver. It goes without saying, but they would be the core skills that we would look for, and we would assess during interview stages.
Dusty Rhodes 13:16
Do either of you have an example of someone who has joined the organisation as a graduate and then has moved up to nice, high, lofty positions?
Bill Bates 13:26
Essentially, we don't have one single individual. What we have is there is no one that has and I can state this categorically. There is no one that has come on to our programme that has not achieved a senior role in the organisation, whether senior engineering or, you know, a titled professional, yeah, and we aim to get everyone to that role as efficiently as possible, if they're willing to take the step. Okay, we have established, and I'm sure Michelle's the same, we've established a series of traits for our senior professionals that they must have not just the basic competencies that engineers Ireland present to you, it's these traits that they have to be able to show to us, but we guide them through the process. Some will want push on. Some may not, but we will get them to that senior engineer role, which we see as the baseline in the organisation. And there is no one that we will leave by the side. They will come through the organisation through our Graduate Development Programme. It is established as a minimum four years, but you can take seven, if you like. We will always have that mentor there for you. We will ensure that we assist you with your application. We will assist you to get chartered as a profession, excellent.
Dusty Rhodes 14:47
And then Michelle with the PM group, then people who start off as graduates, how do they tend to move up in the organisation?
Michelle O’Hagan 14:53
Yeah, we've had some really strong success stories, probably not as many as Bill, just with obviously, the size of the organisation. But. But we've had like one person in particular, Brendan O'Connell, comes to mind. Brendan joined the programme in 2013 and is now our operations general manager for our Philadelphia office, and is growing that office at a substantial rate. So in the space of I know in the space of eight years, Brendan had moved into that role. So that was a really fast tracked career progression story similar to Brendan Kieran Lee, and he is now our operations director for our Belgium office. And we also have Tara Murphy, who joined, and I guess Tara joined, I'm actually not too sure what year it was, but now she is our head of BIM in Ireland. And it's fantastic to have females in leadership positions, and we have loads more that I could talk about. And PAO Donahue, and he's head of process in Cork, we have, yeah, there's so many, just for the content of time, but yeah, some few, some very good success stories there.
Dusty Rhodes 15:53
It's very strong from both of you, the people who are in, coming in through the Graduate Programme into the firm. There's huge career future for them, with both of you, which is fantastic. Bill, the dbfl is, I think, is particularly known for continuous development. Can you tell me a little bit more about the apprenticeship schemes that you have and how you can help somebody go all the way to chartership?
Bill Bates 16:14
This is one thing we were looking at a number of years back. And we, we thought we had these young engineers who were getting, you know, level seven degrees, and they were struggling to get their dropping out early. So we decided to look back at the college days, at the school days, and see where we can assess these young engineers, make them more the dbfl engineer earlier in the career. So we've looked at, at you in the West, which is offered the first, I think, one of the first apprenticeship programmes in the country. And we've, we've two to three, I think, apprentices currently on that programme at the moment. And what we're aiming to do is, is test that process to see how well we can bring those young individuals and young engineers up through the apprenticeship programme. Now it's five, six years to get to level seven degree, but as part of our overall programme that can link into our Graduate Development Programme so they can get a level eight degree through our sponsorship to get them beyond that process and start the stream as an engineer on the Graduate Development Programme. So it's a start, it's a start, and it's, let's say, a cheaper start. There's no There's no cost to education, there's no college cost, there's no debt. It offers a freer opportunity at the earliest possible stage, and it we can hone those young engineers into more more all rounded professionals earlier on, without having the three to four year college degree. And we see that as an advantage to the industry as a whole, rather than just dbfl.
Dusty Rhodes 17:56
Michelle on a kind of another tack. I believe that PM group has a very strong percentage of female graduates, which is fantastic. Tell me, what kind of efforts do you put into encouraging women to build engineering careers?
Michelle O’Hagan 18:07
Yeah, we have put a huge amount of effort over the last number of years to try and increase female intake within the organisation, collectively, not just at the graduate level, but we have been very successful. As you know, historically, it has been very much a male dominated area. So in order for us to change the wheel, graduate level is the easiest group of people that we can target to educate them to come into the to the world of work. And we've we're seeing great momentum in this area. I know even recently, Trinity College announced that their first year graduates within engineering, 37% of those are female this year, which is absolutely fantastic. And we have other universities that are sitting in between the 20 25% but it is having a tangible effect on the industry. We ourselves, we set a target of 40% each year to try and hit, and we've exceeded that target over the last three years. We've hit 45% over the last three years, which we're very proud of. In our placement intake, we had 78 placements join us in 2025 and that was a 5050, split, direct. But again, it doesn't come overnight. We have went and looked at how we go out on campus, and we've been very strategic with our campus strategy. Over the last few years, we've heavily invested in women in STEM societies. We've done female led webinars, heavily supported in the TY programme and the Junior Achievement programme, and that's about educating females at a younger age to show that they can possibly be an engineer. And the ethos and pm group is very much, if you can see it, you can be it. And that's the narrative that we take on campus with us. And we have a strong Women's Network in the company as well, and we do a lot of advertising around that. We have fantastic events throughout the year hosting emails that have progressed in the company. And I think a lot of students are seeing that through our social media channels and nearly thinking, okay, that could be potentially me and. So it's definitely, it's definitely we're seeing great results.
Dusty Rhodes 20:03
Being completely selfish about it. Okay, what is in it for the company by doing this? What's the advantage?
Michelle O’Hagan 20:11
The advantage is you're getting females into the company that are bringing a completely new perspective and skill set to the organisation. We hire based on the right person for the job. It's not just because they're female. They have to have the technical ability, they have to be the cultural fit, but we do feel that females bring a different a different skill to the table, especially when it comes to negotiation, even listening. And if situations get a wee bit, if there's conflict, we've seen that they're able to come in and delegate and calm things down, which is quite good. But again, coming in very highly skilled and highly educated. And again, as I said, it's the best person that gets the job in pm group. They're all assessed in the exact same process,
Dusty Rhodes 20:51
Same thing with yourself. Bill, how are things over at DBFL
Bill Bates 20:54
From the female perspective, absolutely brilliant. I mean, some of some of the young graduates were saying, and the numbers, as Michelle has alluded to, it's increased significantly in the last 20 years. I'm sure Tracy Kearney won't mind me mentioning her. She was probably one of very few engineers that progressed in the early days alongside myself. But today we on our graduate programme alone, we have 25% all, all women and this. These are strong engineers. And as Michelle said, very well educated, very enthusiastic, looking to drive on and in all sectors. Not I mean civil engineering is notoriously the, let's say the dirty industry. Let's say the mucky industry. But there's more and more progressing into that area. Lot more progressing into the structural engineering, the transport, the transport planning side of things, all the modelling, all the role with the academic side of things are necessary. And I think that's it's definitely some of the some of the success that's moved it's changed perspectives. As Michelle said, are, the industry was argumentative, constantly in conflict. Contracts were established to do it. It is. It's a breath of fresh air to have someone slightly different at the table, to come and take that heat out of the situation.
Dusty Rhodes 22:19
Excellent. Always advantages, always advantages from what you are both saying. For a graduate who's considering what they're going to do with their career after college, there's an awful lot of variety that both of you are offering, and a lot of support and growth for a career which you are both offering. Can I ask for people who are listening now and are interested in applying, you must get hundreds of applications bill. I'll ask you first, what makes an application really stand out?
Bill Bates 22:46
That is a difficult one. It is. I mean, I'd say, from my point of view, make sure you get your best degree, okay, the best you can get, okay, but also show that you're you're not just a one trip pony, you know. Yes, we are engineers, but yes, we have things outside of engineering. Show me, show me what you can do and show you, show me you can bring that into the engineering sphere, you know, and make sure it's professional and stands out. Well, what we tend to find, I know, the days of the three piece suit turning up to, you know, a formal interview with a shirt and tie have all but gone and disappeared. However, we still want you to be smart engineers. Are engineers. Our clients expect us to be number crunchers. So we're expected to be sharp. You know, we can't be lying down on a on a puffy pillow with her shirt high, half open. Yeah, that's not what an engineer is. We're we're we come at it from an artistic element, and we do solve the problems that way, but we are ultimately number crunchers, so we need to be shown that. So show me your professional side. But as I say, show me what you have as an all rounder. That's what I like to see.
Dusty Rhodes 24:02
Michelle, what do you like to see in an application to help us stand out?
Michelle O’Hagan 24:05
Yeah, for me, obviously, we're receiving 1,000s of applications, but for me personally, what makes an application stand out is when I can see the student's personality within their CV. You know, we get 1000s of applications. We're getting strong academics and industry experience, which is all relevant and needed, of course, but we are a people organisation, and we do assess on being the right cultural fit. So when we get a CV and someone's able to convey who they are outside of their qualifications, that's what stands out. So like showing us what motivates you, how you collaborate, the initiatives you're involved in, and when they show their individuality, it gives us a more personal feel and makes it more memorable and compelling. So they would be the CVS that would really stick in my mind, rather than just your mundane CV. And one thing I will say is we do receive a lot of chat GBT CVS, so that is a massive thing. Bill, I'm not sure if you're similar. In your organisation, but chat, GPT is fantastic tool to use, but students need to be mindful of we are looking for the superstars. You need to add that personal touch. So you need to take a moment to reanalyze the CV and put yourself in it as well. So that's just a nugget of information there.
Dusty Rhodes 25:17
I find when people are applying to my company that a lot of people are not including relevant information, and they are not reading the actual job description, and they're telling me, you know, kind of well, I've done this, this and this, when I'm lucky, looking for that that drives me nuts. You're getting so many applications. I mean, we're only a small company making podcasts. We get 200 applications for a job. You have to very quickly just go, right, no, gone, bin, bin, bin, bin, bin. Do you have to do the same thing?
Michelle O’Hagan 25:52
Yeah, we do, and they come through the application tracking system. We do have criteria when it comes to grades and qualifications and entering the engineering industry, they have to be qualified in it. We can't, if we can't hire them, if they're not fully qualified to go out on client side. But yeah, it is manual checking, and to make sure.
Dusty Rhodes 26:13
Thats it, Bill, same with yourself?
Bill Bates 26:15
We've a little bit different approach, and I'd say Michelle probably has this as well. Anyway, we're using AI to our advantage at the moment. Yeah, we're using a software you call hire hive, and it filters out key points initially. Then we have our and I'm sure the same HR department that will then filter them again before they come in front of us as engineers. So they're having to get through, I mean, like Michelle and pm group, we are out of the colleges. We have our graduates picked long before there's applications. Essentially through the process, those guys that meet, we formally interview them, make sure they're the right fit for the company, and then offer them the role. It's a buyer's market, as they say at the moment, young engineers, there's plenty of roles out there. There's opportunities there, in both our organisations of scale, depending on what you prefer and what way what you want for your career. And the best thing to do is, you know, establish what you want. First of all, I mean, some of the better things, I suppose, of the smaller organisation from my perspective, is that social. It's the social aspect now I appreciate it. He and we'll have smaller pockets as well. But we just, we're of a scale that we can manage a lot of people. We know, everyone in the group. You know, we just,
Dusty Rhodes 27:36
that's a very real world realisation, I would say to any graduates that are listening, is you need to tick the boxes, and it has to be obvious that you're ticking the boxes. And if you don't, you're done all right. And chances are that for that first check through all of the applications, it's a computer who has no feelings, doesn't care. It just goes, is the box ticked? Yes, no. Don't put it in the bin or move it on, you know. Just to know that, I think, hopefully will help listeners. Today, I was going to ask you about the actual interview process. So, Bill, you were saying that, you know, kind of, it's important to, you know, you don't have to go in in a three piece suit, but, you know, to kind of look your best. Have you had people show up in shabby jeans?
Bill Bates 28:18
Some of them haven't even had a shower.
Dusty Rhodes 28:20
Oh, no, you're kidding.
Bill Bates 28:23
We've had a few surprises, at times, a little bit dishevelled, let's say, turning up. I don't expect you to be at your best. You're a young person. You're probably without funds and assets. You don't have that sort of but make an effort.
Dusty Rhodes 28:40
Make an effort.
Bill Bates 28:43
Turn up smart when, when you're talking on time and promptly.
Dusty Rhodes 28:48
When you're talking to somebody, what are the kind of key things that you look out for that will make a candidate memorable for you?
Bill Bates 28:57
Confidence, talking about themselves, talking about their other aspects. Their engineering career is only at the start, so they have very little to talk about in that area. They may have a little bit, and it's great. I I'm appreciative of what they have, but I want to know what they've done to date. Tell me about themselves. Tell me about you know, whether they play for the GAA team, local rugby team. Tell me about their their hobbies. Do they do? They do what I do? Fiddle around with motorcycles and cars. You know that that would interest me, and it could be anything, absolutely, any subject, as long as you're interested in enthusiastic about it. I still go back. I remember long, long time ago, when I was presenting at Cambridge college a number of years ago, watching this chap talk about radon gas, one of the most boring subjects ever, but he was so enthusiastic about it I still remember it to this date.
Dusty Rhodes 29:54
Yeah. Did you hire him 30 years later? Yeah. Did you take him on?
Bill Bates 29:58
No, he was. He was a he was ahead of me. I was only a PhD.
Dusty Rhodes 30:06
Michelle, how about yourself, when you're interviewing, what are the kind of things you're looking for that will make a candidate memorable?
Michelle O’Hagan 30:12
Yeah, somebody that, I guess, have a can do attitude that's willing to put their hand up and take opportunities. I think that's really important, especially for for graduate starting out in their career and showing that they're really motivated as well. Like we have some fantastic examples. One girl comes to mind me of Bergen, who joined us as an intern, networked really well throughout her internship, got invited to be a brand ambassador. So we have a brand ambassador programme where students that intern or place with us go back to campus and represent us on campus for the remainder of the academic year, basically flying the flag for pm group on campus. And just through her networking, she didn't have to re interview for her graduate position. She converted straight on to the Graduate Programme. She's in year two. Now. She's done a year in building services, and now she's transferred into project management, but only recently, she has been appointed as the co chair of our Women's Network, and with that will come, you know, she's just put her hand up for everything and said she's taken the yes, said yes to the opportunities that have presented her way, and her personal brand has grown substantially from doing so. And if future opportunities come up, her name's always probably going to be in the mix as well, because she is a person that's willing to get involved. So that's kind of the type of characteristics that we would look for listen.
Dusty Rhodes 31:29
Let me wrap up by asking for students who are still studying at the moment and listening to the podcast, what is one thing that they can do right now to make their future application as strong as possible, Michelle?
Michelle O’Hagan 31:42
Yeah, I think students need to focus on their academics. Try and maintain a strong grade. Focus on your coursework. Be able to talk about your coursework in detail when you get to the interview stage, your role, your responsibilities, your learnings, any challenges you've encountered and how you've overcame them, because that's really good. When you get to an interview and you're able to talk confidently. About that, focus on your CV and interview prep. Every university has a career team. I don't think they're utilised enough. They are a wealth of knowledge. They're speaking to industry daily so they know exactly what each company is looking for. Spend time with them. They'll support you on your CV, they'll give you advice and take it on board, as well as that, for students that have experience from their internship and placement, again, focus on how you want to demonstrate your responsibilities throughout that time. And for students that haven't secured an internship or placement and feel maybe that they're at a disadvantage entering the application market, they shouldn't focus on potentially looking at what software is the company, use the technical side of the company and maybe do foundation certificates or courses in that the likes of MATLAB, primavera, AutoCAD, rivet, depending on what department they're mostly interested in. And when you've got that on your CV, straight away, that's a conversation starter. And managers look for those things as well. So that can be an advantage and can block out that gap in your CV of not secure in the internship. Okay?
Dusty Rhodes 33:05
And Bill with yourself. What is one piece of advice you give to somebody who's studying now in college? What can they do now to help their future application?
Bill Bates 33:15
As Michelle said, Get the best degree you can. We are not dropping standards in the Civil and Structural and transportation engineering industry. When I started out, there was a minimum class two, one or second class, upper degree to get into consultancy, and we have set that bar. So get the best degree you can. But as Michelle said, as well, there are, make sure you highlight to us the skills that you're learning. Focus on areas that are open to the industry. Go to engineers Ireland events, go to ice events, learn from them, learn speak to people. Get good connections. You can get a better opportunity by just knowing someone than having any of the necessary skills. That's a softer way. And it's just it gets you in front of the right person sooner. I can only say that if you want to meet with me anytime you like. I mean, I'm open. I'm on LinkedIn, connect with me. I'm on engineers Ireland events, connect with me, get out there and make yourself the best engineer you can.
Dusty Rhodes 34:25
Bill and Michelle, it's been really eye opening speaking to both of you, because you've both been very honest about what employers are looking for. And I hope it's going to give an edge to any graduates, or soon to be graduates, who are listening to the podcast today, if you'd like to learn more about the opportunities that are available at PM Group or DBFL, you can find information but and links to their Graduate Programmes in the description area of this podcast. But for now, Michelle O'Hagan and Bill Bates, thank you so much for sharing your invaluable experience with us today
Michelle O’Hagan 34:55
Thank you.
Bill Bates 34:56
Thank you. Thank you.
Dusty Rhodes 34:57
If you know a student who would appreciate these insights. Please do share this podcast episode with them. They can find it simply by searching for Engineers Ireland, wherever they get their podcast. This episode is produced by dustpod.io for Engineers Ireland, for more information on engineering or career development advice, you'll find a wealth of resources on the website at engineersireland.ie. Until next time for myself. Dusty Rhodes, thank you for listening.